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	<title>Comments on: Martin Rees: Atheists should drop anti-religion campaigns</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/</link>
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		<title>By: Ainz</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>Ainz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=117#comment-196</guid>
		<description>If ya need s’more wiggle room, let me know.

(fascist, fundamentalist, fandangoist, freemasons!!!!!!!!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If ya need s’more wiggle room, let me know.</p>
<p>(fascist, fundamentalist, fandangoist, freemasons!!!!!!!!)</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 23:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=117#comment-172</guid>
		<description>You blew right past my statement...

&quot;Although Darwinism and religion can coexist (as it does for many believers of many faiths),&quot;  

My post could just as easily have been made by a non-fundamentalist Christian Conservative as well as an agnostic Liberal. The only philosophically &quot;partisan&quot; suggestion I implied was that in &quot;in the USA, (not in Great Britain) Christian fundamentalism and fascist politics are highly correlated&quot;. 

But  there are clearly sufficient counter-examples that no one can claim they are equivalent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You blew right past my statement&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Although Darwinism and religion can coexist (as it does for many believers of many faiths),&#8221;  </p>
<p>My post could just as easily have been made by a non-fundamentalist Christian Conservative as well as an agnostic Liberal. The only philosophically &#8220;partisan&#8221; suggestion I implied was that in &#8220;in the USA, (not in Great Britain) Christian fundamentalism and fascist politics are highly correlated&#8221;. </p>
<p>But  there are clearly sufficient counter-examples that no one can claim they are equivalent.</p>
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		<title>By: Ainz</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Ainz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=117#comment-154</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re making Rees point for him. You blow right past his suggestion of not painting all believers as creationists, and do precisely that, using the divisive “tactics” he warns against. 

It is emblematic of the hard left, that there can be no disagreement with their established dogma. Thanks for demonstrating that inflexibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re making Rees point for him. You blow right past his suggestion of not painting all believers as creationists, and do precisely that, using the divisive “tactics” he warns against. </p>
<p>It is emblematic of the hard left, that there can be no disagreement with their established dogma. Thanks for demonstrating that inflexibility.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=117#comment-146</guid>
		<description>I see an external reality composed of impersonal, non-human forces.  However, at the collective level with which I deal with it, it is composed of other human beings and groups of humans, and of the interactions between them, from my own personal psychology to the sweep of world history. 

 I believe the universe is nothing but matter and energy interacting in space and time, and NOTHING ELSE.  No spooky forces or shadowy personalities pulling strings in the background and making things happen. But that is not the world I live in and my mind has to perceive and influence.

I don&#039;t deal with the universe at the quantum level, or even at the chemical level.  The kind of activities where I deal with the universe involve things like choosing a career, running my household, conducting my business, managing my social relationships, maintaining a harmonious relationship between myself and the universe around me.  The rules are very different from what lies beneath, electricity, gravity, chemistry, etc.  But they are just as real.

But every now and then I have to remind myself that nothing I see, do or think means shit to a tree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see an external reality composed of impersonal, non-human forces.  However, at the collective level with which I deal with it, it is composed of other human beings and groups of humans, and of the interactions between them, from my own personal psychology to the sweep of world history. </p>
<p> I believe the universe is nothing but matter and energy interacting in space and time, and NOTHING ELSE.  No spooky forces or shadowy personalities pulling strings in the background and making things happen. But that is not the world I live in and my mind has to perceive and influence.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t deal with the universe at the quantum level, or even at the chemical level.  The kind of activities where I deal with the universe involve things like choosing a career, running my household, conducting my business, managing my social relationships, maintaining a harmonious relationship between myself and the universe around me.  The rules are very different from what lies beneath, electricity, gravity, chemistry, etc.  But they are just as real.</p>
<p>But every now and then I have to remind myself that nothing I see, do or think means shit to a tree.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=117#comment-144</guid>
		<description>There is only one objective reality, but as in the parable of the wise men and the elephant, it looks different depending on how you look at it.

There is the objective reality of the physicist, a mysterious world of fields waves and particles which only makes sense as a mathematical abstraction. At different scales of time and space we see different realities:, the chemical, the biological, the environmental, the psychological, the social, 
the cultural, the political, the economic, the historical...and I&#039;m only talking about human affairs here, there are other directions we can probe as well.  They are all equally valid, and all understood with different methods and disciplines. 

All humans are undoubtedly bags of chemicals, but a knowledge of chemistry does you no good in running a country, or a business, or an infantry platoon, or even in raising a child.  Maybe there is only one reality, but it looks very differently depending on which temporal or spatial scale you are operating at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is only one objective reality, but as in the parable of the wise men and the elephant, it looks different depending on how you look at it.</p>
<p>There is the objective reality of the physicist, a mysterious world of fields waves and particles which only makes sense as a mathematical abstraction. At different scales of time and space we see different realities:, the chemical, the biological, the environmental, the psychological, the social,<br />
the cultural, the political, the economic, the historical&#8230;and I&#8217;m only talking about human affairs here, there are other directions we can probe as well.  They are all equally valid, and all understood with different methods and disciplines. </p>
<p>All humans are undoubtedly bags of chemicals, but a knowledge of chemistry does you no good in running a country, or a business, or an infantry platoon, or even in raising a child.  Maybe there is only one reality, but it looks very differently depending on which temporal or spatial scale you are operating at.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/#comment-136</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=117#comment-136</guid>
		<description>Objective reality is one of the most difficult concepts for me to wrap my head around. The only objective reality I can understand is nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Objective reality is one of the most difficult concepts for me to wrap my head around. The only objective reality I can understand is nature.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/#comment-135</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=117#comment-135</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re asking the wrong question.  The important thing to keep in mind is that there IS an objective reality, and we can strive to know it.  That knowledge is always limited by our own perceptions and instrumentalities, but it&#039;s too easy to slip from imperfect knowledge of reality to &quot;nothing is real.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re asking the wrong question.  The important thing to keep in mind is that there IS an objective reality, and we can strive to know it.  That knowledge is always limited by our own perceptions and instrumentalities, but it&#8217;s too easy to slip from imperfect knowledge of reality to &#8220;nothing is real.&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=117#comment-132</guid>
		<description>So...in that vein...vain...vane..whichever applies...what is your perception of objective reality?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230;in that vein&#8230;vain&#8230;vane..whichever applies&#8230;what is your perception of objective reality?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=117#comment-126</guid>
		<description>I should put the Dallas Cowboys right up there with they NY Yankees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should put the Dallas Cowboys right up there with they NY Yankees.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/04/24/martin-rees-atheists-should-drop-anti-religion-campaigns/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=117#comment-125</guid>
		<description>Religious fundamentalism is not the only aberration of this type, political zealotry falls into the same category, as well as certain philosophical beliefs.  Sometimes it goes into even crazier dimensions, such as fanaticism for a sports team, or for a particular type of music or art. Or it can express itself as a perverse form of natural love, such as admiration of a leader, or of  a group, such as a gang, or race, or country.

I mean, I love rock and roll and hate the New York Yankees like any decent human being should, and I put up with crap from my relatives I wouldn&#039;t take from anyone else; but I don&#039;t wish death or bodily injury to those who disagree with me. People do get into fights at ball games.

The problem is not about what we believe in, everyone believes in a lot of things we can&#039;t prove to be true,  even things no one can prove to be true.  The problem lies when we need our belief to be a universal truth because it fulfills some psychological or social need, when denying that belief attacks or threatens us.  And when the need to believe manifests itself as hatred for those who do not, look out.  That&#039;s the lizard brain at work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Religious fundamentalism is not the only aberration of this type, political zealotry falls into the same category, as well as certain philosophical beliefs.  Sometimes it goes into even crazier dimensions, such as fanaticism for a sports team, or for a particular type of music or art. Or it can express itself as a perverse form of natural love, such as admiration of a leader, or of  a group, such as a gang, or race, or country.</p>
<p>I mean, I love rock and roll and hate the New York Yankees like any decent human being should, and I put up with crap from my relatives I wouldn&#8217;t take from anyone else; but I don&#8217;t wish death or bodily injury to those who disagree with me. People do get into fights at ball games.</p>
<p>The problem is not about what we believe in, everyone believes in a lot of things we can&#8217;t prove to be true,  even things no one can prove to be true.  The problem lies when we need our belief to be a universal truth because it fulfills some psychological or social need, when denying that belief attacks or threatens us.  And when the need to believe manifests itself as hatred for those who do not, look out.  That&#8217;s the lizard brain at work.</p>
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