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	<title>Comments on: Trillion dollar plus deficits for third straight year</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/11/trillion-dollar-plus-deficits-for-third-straight-year/</link>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/11/trillion-dollar-plus-deficits-for-third-straight-year/#comment-2039</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1601#comment-2039</guid>
		<description>That chart tells you all about Keynesian economics.  And its record isn&#039;t nearly as spotless as you say it is.  Pulling money out of the economy to redistribute it to targeted political cronies is not a good recipe for economic growth.  Anyway, people have already seen that the results from the &quot;stimulus&quot; aren&#039;t at all what was specifically promised, and &quot;wait for it&quot; is getting a bit old.

There are real answers for the economy, but they are anathema to &quot;progressives.&quot;

Remember, &quot;It Could Have Been Worse&quot; isn&#039;t a very good campaign slogan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That chart tells you all about Keynesian economics.  And its record isn&#8217;t nearly as spotless as you say it is.  Pulling money out of the economy to redistribute it to targeted political cronies is not a good recipe for economic growth.  Anyway, people have already seen that the results from the &#8220;stimulus&#8221; aren&#8217;t at all what was specifically promised, and &#8220;wait for it&#8221; is getting a bit old.</p>
<p>There are real answers for the economy, but they are anathema to &#8220;progressives.&#8221;</p>
<p>Remember, &#8220;It Could Have Been Worse&#8221; isn&#8217;t a very good campaign slogan.</p>
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		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/11/trillion-dollar-plus-deficits-for-third-straight-year/#comment-2037</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 02:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1601#comment-2037</guid>
		<description>The peak of the meltdown?  My god what BS!  The economy was losing 700k jobs a month when Obama took office and continued on a free fall until the stimulus kicked in and halted the job losses.  And Keynesian economics has almost 80 years of successful empirical and statistical data.  People like you will try to destroy this country with your idiotic ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The peak of the meltdown?  My god what BS!  The economy was losing 700k jobs a month when Obama took office and continued on a free fall until the stimulus kicked in and halted the job losses.  And Keynesian economics has almost 80 years of successful empirical and statistical data.  People like you will try to destroy this country with your idiotic ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/11/trillion-dollar-plus-deficits-for-third-straight-year/#comment-2003</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1601#comment-2003</guid>
		<description>I changed the Wikipedia page so the sources link to the 2012 budget instead of the 2011 one.  I&#039;m not going to rub their noses in anything else by, for example, dropping that 106 percent estimate into that chart, but anyone looking up the sources (always a good idea with Wikipedia) will see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I changed the Wikipedia page so the sources link to the 2012 budget instead of the 2011 one.  I&#8217;m not going to rub their noses in anything else by, for example, dropping that 106 percent estimate into that chart, but anyone looking up the sources (always a good idea with Wikipedia) will see it.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/11/trillion-dollar-plus-deficits-for-third-straight-year/#comment-2001</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1601#comment-2001</guid>
		<description>No problem.  You get bonus points for having data in the first place!

I think the primary point of the original article, that more government spending isn&#039;t really the answer to either jobs or debt, stands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem.  You get bonus points for having data in the first place!</p>
<p>I think the primary point of the original article, that more government spending isn&#8217;t really the answer to either jobs or debt, stands.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/11/trillion-dollar-plus-deficits-for-third-straight-year/#comment-2000</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2011 16:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1601#comment-2000</guid>
		<description>Tom, I just showed VRB the data.  You&#039;re free to interpret it any way you want. : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, I just showed VRB the data.  You&#8217;re free to interpret it any way you want. : )</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/11/trillion-dollar-plus-deficits-for-third-straight-year/#comment-1998</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2011 16:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1601#comment-1998</guid>
		<description>(Columbo Voice)One more thing:(/Columbo Voice)  On that first debt/GDP chart with all the Presidents on it (apparently we&#039;re leaving Congresses out of this), each president is &quot;credited&quot; with the first year of his successor&#039;s terms.  Reasonable enough, I suppose, as long as it&#039;s consistent.  Certainly it helps makes Bush look a lot worse, since the number at the end of fiscal 2008 was 69.4 percent.

Obama&#039;s numbers at the bottom aren&#039;t all there yet.  He hasn&#039;t completed his first term.  But the debt/GDP estimates given in his own budget document for 2013 is 106 percent.  If we completed that table based on Obama&#039;s own estimates, that&#039;s a plus 22.6 percent.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/hist07z1.xls&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt; (excel file)

Of course, unlike all those other presidents, Obama is doing this for good and proper reasons.

I should also remind everyone that Obama&#039;s future budget estimates include major tax increases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Columbo Voice)One more thing:(/Columbo Voice)  On that first debt/GDP chart with all the Presidents on it (apparently we&#8217;re leaving Congresses out of this), each president is &#8220;credited&#8221; with the first year of his successor&#8217;s terms.  Reasonable enough, I suppose, as long as it&#8217;s consistent.  Certainly it helps makes Bush look a lot worse, since the number at the end of fiscal 2008 was 69.4 percent.</p>
<p>Obama&#8217;s numbers at the bottom aren&#8217;t all there yet.  He hasn&#8217;t completed his first term.  But the debt/GDP estimates given in his own budget document for 2013 is 106 percent.  If we completed that table based on Obama&#8217;s own estimates, that&#8217;s a plus 22.6 percent.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/hist07z1.xls" rel="nofollow">Source</a> (excel file)</p>
<p>Of course, unlike all those other presidents, Obama is doing this for good and proper reasons.</p>
<p>I should also remind everyone that Obama&#8217;s future budget estimates include major tax increases.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/11/trillion-dollar-plus-deficits-for-third-straight-year/#comment-1997</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2011 15:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1601#comment-1997</guid>
		<description>Note also this little Wikipedia caveat:

&lt;blockquote&gt;It is worth noting that these figures do not include unfunded obligations. The U.S. government is committed under current law to mandatory payments for programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. The 2009 present value of these deficits or unfunded obligations is an estimated $45.8 trillion. This is the amount that would have to be set aside during 2009 such that the principal and interest would pay for the unfunded commitments through 2084. Approximately $7.7 trillion relates to Social Security, while $38.2 trillion relates to Medicare and Medicaid. Adding this to the national debt and other federal commitments brings the total obligations to nearly $62 trillion.[6] However, these amounts are excluded from the national debt computation. To fully analyze the effect of each presidential term on the real debt, one would need to examine when various unfunded obligations were incurred.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Suddenly LBJ doesn&#039;t look so good, does he?  Or anyone else who created or increased the current entitlement system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note also this little Wikipedia caveat:</p>
<blockquote><p>It is worth noting that these figures do not include unfunded obligations. The U.S. government is committed under current law to mandatory payments for programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. The 2009 present value of these deficits or unfunded obligations is an estimated $45.8 trillion. This is the amount that would have to be set aside during 2009 such that the principal and interest would pay for the unfunded commitments through 2084. Approximately $7.7 trillion relates to Social Security, while $38.2 trillion relates to Medicare and Medicaid. Adding this to the national debt and other federal commitments brings the total obligations to nearly $62 trillion.[6] However, these amounts are excluded from the national debt computation. To fully analyze the effect of each presidential term on the real debt, one would need to examine when various unfunded obligations were incurred.</p></blockquote>
<p>Suddenly LBJ doesn&#8217;t look so good, does he?  Or anyone else who created or increased the current entitlement system.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/11/trillion-dollar-plus-deficits-for-third-straight-year/#comment-1994</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1601#comment-1994</guid>
		<description>&quot;Economic commentators have noted a pattern between changes in US national debt and US presidential terms over the last few decades. These commentators observe that changes in US national debt have been correlated with the political ideology of the ruling administration.&quot;


&quot;Economist Mike Kimel notes that the last five Democratic Presidents (Clinton, Carter, LBJ, JFK, and Truman) all reduced public debt as a share of GDP, while the last four Republican Presidents (GW Bush, GHW Bush, Reagan, and Ford) all oversaw an increase in the country’s indebtedness. Economic historian J. Bradford DeLong observes a contrast not so much between Republicans and Democrats, but between Democrats and &quot;old-style Republicans (Eisenhower and Nixon)&quot; on one hand (decreasing debt), and &quot;new-style Republicans&quot; on the other (increasing debt). Similarly, Republican David Stockman, director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan, as op-ed contributor to the New York Times blamed the &quot;ideological tax-cutters&quot; of the Reagan administration for the increase of national debt during the 1980s.&quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

(Lots of graphs, tables and footnotes on that site).)

The only exception to the trend has been Obama, but he is deliberately using deficit spending to pull us out of a recession, as he promised he would during his campaign. Whether its the way to go about it, or whether he succeeds or not, is a valid matter for debate, and for history to decide.  But at least its not because he wants to give his pals a tax break.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Economic commentators have noted a pattern between changes in US national debt and US presidential terms over the last few decades. These commentators observe that changes in US national debt have been correlated with the political ideology of the ruling administration.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Economist Mike Kimel notes that the last five Democratic Presidents (Clinton, Carter, LBJ, JFK, and Truman) all reduced public debt as a share of GDP, while the last four Republican Presidents (GW Bush, GHW Bush, Reagan, and Ford) all oversaw an increase in the country’s indebtedness. Economic historian J. Bradford DeLong observes a contrast not so much between Republicans and Democrats, but between Democrats and &#8220;old-style Republicans (Eisenhower and Nixon)&#8221; on one hand (decreasing debt), and &#8220;new-style Republicans&#8221; on the other (increasing debt). Similarly, Republican David Stockman, director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan, as op-ed contributor to the New York Times blamed the &#8220;ideological tax-cutters&#8221; of the Reagan administration for the increase of national debt during the 1980s.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms</a></p>
<p>(Lots of graphs, tables and footnotes on that site).)</p>
<p>The only exception to the trend has been Obama, but he is deliberately using deficit spending to pull us out of a recession, as he promised he would during his campaign. Whether its the way to go about it, or whether he succeeds or not, is a valid matter for debate, and for history to decide.  But at least its not because he wants to give his pals a tax break.</p>
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		<title>By: VelociraptorBlade</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/11/trillion-dollar-plus-deficits-for-third-straight-year/#comment-1972</link>
		<dc:creator>VelociraptorBlade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2011 02:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1601#comment-1972</guid>
		<description>Haven&#039;t we had these deficits since Nixon was in office?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven&#8217;t we had these deficits since Nixon was in office?</p>
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