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	<title>Comments on: You know your prison population is too high&#8230;</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/</link>
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		<title>By: VelociraptorBlade</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/#comment-2961</link>
		<dc:creator>VelociraptorBlade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2011 06:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=2034#comment-2961</guid>
		<description>My guess?  Private prisons should be run more like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Well, not entirely. *shudders*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess?  Private prisons should be run more like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.</p>
<p>Well, not entirely. *shudders*</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/#comment-2916</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 00:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A lot of my posting is powered by steam.  Hadn&#039;t you noticed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of my posting is powered by steam.  Hadn&#8217;t you noticed?</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/#comment-2914</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 00:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=2034#comment-2914</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re still using steam?

;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re still using steam?<br />
 <img src='https://habitablezone.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/#comment-2911</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=2034#comment-2911</guid>
		<description>I hate to keep having to drive things home with a goddam steam hammer, but don&#039;t you think the institutions and unions who are hauling in 96 percent of the billions that governments are spending on prisons might not have &lt;em&gt;some small fucking incentive to increase the number of public prisons or the number of prisoners?&lt;/em&gt;

You&#039;ve got the word &quot;profit&quot; jammed so far up your nose it&#039;s stuck in your forebrain.  This isn&#039;t about &quot;profit.&quot;  It&#039;s about &lt;em&gt;money&lt;/em&gt;.  The more prisoners there are, the more money and political power devolves to the public prison system and the associated unions.

&lt;em&gt;Again, it was the CCPOA, NOT the private prison companies that drove Proposition 184.&lt;/em&gt;  This was the first response I made, with evidence, and you act like &lt;em&gt;nobody said anything.&lt;/em&gt;  Here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://198.170.117.218/cpp/political_power.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;yet &lt;em&gt;another&lt;/em&gt; article &lt;/a&gt;with more details than any rational person should need, although it&#039;s becoming pretty obvious you haven&#039;t looked at any of the others either.

Not only that, but the CCPOA was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.open.salon.com/blog/jakewilliams/2009/09/11/the_ccpoa_and_the_corrupt_prison_system&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;instrumental in preventing any reform of Three Strikes,&lt;/a&gt; like Proposition 66.  Don&#039;t click that one either, but maybe somebody else will learn something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to keep having to drive things home with a goddam steam hammer, but don&#8217;t you think the institutions and unions who are hauling in 96 percent of the billions that governments are spending on prisons might not have <em>some small fucking incentive to increase the number of public prisons or the number of prisoners?</em></p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got the word &#8220;profit&#8221; jammed so far up your nose it&#8217;s stuck in your forebrain.  This isn&#8217;t about &#8220;profit.&#8221;  It&#8217;s about <em>money</em>.  The more prisoners there are, the more money and political power devolves to the public prison system and the associated unions.</p>
<p><em>Again, it was the CCPOA, NOT the private prison companies that drove Proposition 184.</em>  This was the first response I made, with evidence, and you act like <em>nobody said anything.</em>  Here&#8217;s <a href="http://198.170.117.218/cpp/political_power.php" rel="nofollow">yet <em>another</em> article </a>with more details than any rational person should need, although it&#8217;s becoming pretty obvious you haven&#8217;t looked at any of the others either.</p>
<p>Not only that, but the CCPOA was <a href="http://www.open.salon.com/blog/jakewilliams/2009/09/11/the_ccpoa_and_the_corrupt_prison_system" rel="nofollow">instrumental in preventing any reform of Three Strikes,</a> like Proposition 66.  Don&#8217;t click that one either, but maybe somebody else will learn something.</p>
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		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/#comment-2909</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=2034#comment-2909</guid>
		<description>You have a reading comprehension problem.  I&#039;ve seen studies about costs and there is conflicting data on what is more cost effective.  My point, however, was never about &quot;costs.&quot;  It was about the incentive to have more and more prisoners every year.  As a private business, private prisons have to grow every year to maintain profitability, like all private business must do.  It is a perverse system that has an incentive to lock more and more people away every year to make money.  THAT was my point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have a reading comprehension problem.  I&#8217;ve seen studies about costs and there is conflicting data on what is more cost effective.  My point, however, was never about &#8220;costs.&#8221;  It was about the incentive to have more and more prisoners every year.  As a private business, private prisons have to grow every year to maintain profitability, like all private business must do.  It is a perverse system that has an incentive to lock more and more people away every year to make money.  THAT was my point.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/#comment-2898</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 17:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=2034#comment-2898</guid>
		<description>A little more math from that Justice Policy Institute paper.  The paper declares that the two largest private prison companies had national revenues of $2.9 billion in 2010, while overall prison spending was $74 billion in 2007.  Even assuming that the overall figure remained there until 2010, that puts the private revenues at about 4 percent of the total.  With 8 percent of the prisoners.  And this is supposed to be the &quot;problem&quot; with our prison spending?

Fact is that everything the private system is accused of doing, the public unionized systems are doing one hell of a lot harder.  Any paper on general prison problems that completely ignores that - like this one - is selling an agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little more math from that Justice Policy Institute paper.  The paper declares that the two largest private prison companies had national revenues of $2.9 billion in 2010, while overall prison spending was $74 billion in 2007.  Even assuming that the overall figure remained there until 2010, that puts the private revenues at about 4 percent of the total.  With 8 percent of the prisoners.  And this is supposed to be the &#8220;problem&#8221; with our prison spending?</p>
<p>Fact is that everything the private system is accused of doing, the public unionized systems are doing one hell of a lot harder.  Any paper on general prison problems that completely ignores that &#8211; like this one &#8211; is selling an agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/#comment-2888</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=2034#comment-2888</guid>
		<description>From your link:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Some of the biggest names in the private prison industry have given $835,514 to federal candidates since 2000 and a stunning $6,092,331 to state politicians in the last five elections cycles, according to data in the report.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s $6,927,845 since 2000.  Call it $7 million.  All of the private prison companies, across the whole country.  Hold that number in your mind.

Now tally up what the CCPOA, the California prison union, has &lt;a href=&quot;http://cal-access.ss.ca.gov/Misc/filerSearch.aspx?SEARCH=ccpoa&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;spent on political activities in that time period&lt;/a&gt;.  One union.  In one state.

I get a total of about $33.6 million.  By one union, just in California.

We done here?

I had looked at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.justicepolicy.org/uploads/justicepolicy/documents/gaming_the_system.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Justice Policy Institute paper&lt;/a&gt; before I made my first response.  I do the research first, you see.  No mention of union political influence anywhere, which is not surprising considering the source.  There is a mention of unions, though.  From that paper:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Most private prisons do not allow the formation of correctional officer unions, which helps to reduce the overall cost of running a private prison, but limits the staff’s ability to negotiate pay, benefits, and proper training. Although proponents of private prisons argue that unions drive up prison costs, they appear to offer a level of stability and training that is not present in most private prisons.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And there you have the entire foundation of this anti-private prison deal.  Exact same reason the Left hates Wal-Mart - they aren&#039;t getting that union loot.  The CCPOA hauls in $22 million a year in union dues.  Again, that&#039;s just one California union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From your link:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Some of the biggest names in the private prison industry have given $835,514 to federal candidates since 2000 and a stunning $6,092,331 to state politicians in the last five elections cycles, according to data in the report.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s $6,927,845 since 2000.  Call it $7 million.  All of the private prison companies, across the whole country.  Hold that number in your mind.</p>
<p>Now tally up what the CCPOA, the California prison union, has <a href="http://cal-access.ss.ca.gov/Misc/filerSearch.aspx?SEARCH=ccpoa" rel="nofollow">spent on political activities in that time period</a>.  One union.  In one state.</p>
<p>I get a total of about $33.6 million.  By one union, just in California.</p>
<p>We done here?</p>
<p>I had looked at the <a href="http://www.justicepolicy.org/uploads/justicepolicy/documents/gaming_the_system.pdf" rel="nofollow">Justice Policy Institute paper</a> before I made my first response.  I do the research first, you see.  No mention of union political influence anywhere, which is not surprising considering the source.  There is a mention of unions, though.  From that paper:</p>
<blockquote><p>Most private prisons do not allow the formation of correctional officer unions, which helps to reduce the overall cost of running a private prison, but limits the staff’s ability to negotiate pay, benefits, and proper training. Although proponents of private prisons argue that unions drive up prison costs, they appear to offer a level of stability and training that is not present in most private prisons.</p></blockquote>
<p>And there you have the entire foundation of this anti-private prison deal.  Exact same reason the Left hates Wal-Mart &#8211; they aren&#8217;t getting that union loot.  The CCPOA hauls in $22 million a year in union dues.  Again, that&#8217;s just one California union.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/#comment-2878</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=2034#comment-2878</guid>
		<description>Yep, just think about the savings to be generated from the growing pool of prison labor, a resource we have only just started to exploit.

No pesky health and labor laws, no unions, no regulations, no minimum wage, and a healthy government subsidy to help finance the whole operation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, just think about the savings to be generated from the growing pool of prison labor, a resource we have only just started to exploit.</p>
<p>No pesky health and labor laws, no unions, no regulations, no minimum wage, and a healthy government subsidy to help finance the whole operation.</p>
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		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/#comment-2875</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 08:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=2034#comment-2875</guid>
		<description>No end to this blame the public unions game is there?  I suppose this has nothing to do with the ever increasing prisoner population?

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/report_private_prisons_love_mass_incarceration_and_want_politicians_to_as_well.php

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/25/988397/-Report:-Private-prison-companies-boost-incarceration-rates-for-profit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No end to this blame the public unions game is there?  I suppose this has nothing to do with the ever increasing prisoner population?</p>
<p><a href="http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/report_private_prisons_love_mass_incarceration_and_want_politicians_to_as_well.php" rel="nofollow">http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/report_private_prisons_love_mass_incarceration_and_want_politicians_to_as_well.php</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/25/988397/-Report:-Private-prison-companies-boost-incarceration-rates-for-profit" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/25/988397/-Report:-Private-prison-companies-boost-incarceration-rates-for-profit</a></p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/06/26/you-know-your-prison-population-is-too-high/#comment-2872</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 04:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=2034#comment-2872</guid>
		<description>Yeah, public prisons can lose money year after year and never think twice about it.

Something like 8 percent of all state and federal prisoners nationwide are held in private prisons.  I doubt this is a primary driver for imprisonment rates.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;The private prison industry are the ones who lobbied and got the three strikes law in place.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not really true.  The major push for &quot;Three Strikes&quot; in California was the &lt;a href=&quot;http://caprop184.wordpress.com/the-ccpoa-and-proposition-184/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CCPOA, the prison guards union.&lt;/a&gt;  This union is one of the largest abusers of state funds here.  Private prisons typically do not employ union labor, and the CCPOA is strongly against private prisons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, public prisons can lose money year after year and never think twice about it.</p>
<p>Something like 8 percent of all state and federal prisoners nationwide are held in private prisons.  I doubt this is a primary driver for imprisonment rates.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The private prison industry are the ones who lobbied and got the three strikes law in place.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Not really true.  The major push for &#8220;Three Strikes&#8221; in California was the <a href="http://caprop184.wordpress.com/the-ccpoa-and-proposition-184/" rel="nofollow">CCPOA, the prison guards union.</a>  This union is one of the largest abusers of state funds here.  Private prisons typically do not employ union labor, and the CCPOA is strongly against private prisons.</p>
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