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	<title>Comments on: Hikers imprisoned in Iran have been freed</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/09/21/hikers-imprisoned-in-iran-have-been-freedi/</link>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/09/21/hikers-imprisoned-in-iran-have-been-freedi/#comment-6112</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=3815#comment-6112</guid>
		<description>Me, too Eri...I was double cursed with my stout legs...either the Scottish Highlander or the German Heritage I boast. I guess I could hate them for that.

Nah....I love my roots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me, too Eri&#8230;I was double cursed with my stout legs&#8230;either the Scottish Highlander or the German Heritage I boast. I guess I could hate them for that.</p>
<p>Nah&#8230;.I love my roots.</p>
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		<title>By: Eri</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/09/21/hikers-imprisoned-in-iran-have-been-freedi/#comment-6107</link>
		<dc:creator>Eri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2011 05:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=3815#comment-6107</guid>
		<description>Our family couldn&#039;t hate Germany since our heritage is German.  In fact, we still had quite a few relatives who lived in the part of Germany that Russia swallowed whole.  They had it so bad that after the war was over, my family sent them food packets and money to keep them for starving.

We were going to go to East Germany and look up some of our relatives when my parents came to England to see John and I in 1968.  Unfortunately, that was right when Russia invaded Czechoslovakia and if we had crossed into East Germany, my Air Force husband would have had to go through a security clearance to get back to the West and we would all have had to give up our passports to get in and we refused to do that.  It just wasn&#039;t worth the hassle.  So we never got to meet our German relatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our family couldn&#8217;t hate Germany since our heritage is German.  In fact, we still had quite a few relatives who lived in the part of Germany that Russia swallowed whole.  They had it so bad that after the war was over, my family sent them food packets and money to keep them for starving.</p>
<p>We were going to go to East Germany and look up some of our relatives when my parents came to England to see John and I in 1968.  Unfortunately, that was right when Russia invaded Czechoslovakia and if we had crossed into East Germany, my Air Force husband would have had to go through a security clearance to get back to the West and we would all have had to give up our passports to get in and we refused to do that.  It just wasn&#8217;t worth the hassle.  So we never got to meet our German relatives.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/09/21/hikers-imprisoned-in-iran-have-been-freedi/#comment-6070</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=3815#comment-6070</guid>
		<description>My mother hated the Japanese and Germans, but especially the Japanese (because that&#039;s who my father was fighting!). Both Japan and Germany were quickly rehabilitated when they became cold war allies. But Viet Nam was never rehabilitated. They didn&#039;t just fight us, they beat us, and that was unforgivable. Even when the Vietnamese went to war with Cambodia, we (and Viet Nam&#039;s other enemy, China) supported Pol Pot over Viet Nam.

Most of the time, after governments sign the peace treaties, the belligerent populations quickly bury the hatchet and resume normal trade and travel relations, especially when faced with a common threat, as did Western Europe after WWII.

If you watch movie and TV fiction about Viet Nam, it is often hard to discern who actually won from the story line.  And of course, revision and history re-writing is rampant. To this day, writing on the subject often emphasizes what we &quot;gained&quot; from that unfortunate adventure instead of the pointless waste which was its true legacy; or obsesses about how we were &quot;betrayed&quot; and &quot;stabbed in the back&quot; by traitors.  

To this day, the South is still fighting the Civil War over and over, playing &quot;what if&quot;, &quot;if only&quot; and the &quot;blame game&quot;, and whitewashing what happened, and why. Much the same happened in Germany after WWI, when the Germans were forced to accept a bitter and unfair peace even though their arms were never decisively defeated. 

American domestic politics changed after Vietnam, too.  It became more divisive, more ideological.  It became more about ends than it did means. In some ways, we are still fighting that war, except we&#039;re fighting it right here at home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My mother hated the Japanese and Germans, but especially the Japanese (because that&#8217;s who my father was fighting!). Both Japan and Germany were quickly rehabilitated when they became cold war allies. But Viet Nam was never rehabilitated. They didn&#8217;t just fight us, they beat us, and that was unforgivable. Even when the Vietnamese went to war with Cambodia, we (and Viet Nam&#8217;s other enemy, China) supported Pol Pot over Viet Nam.</p>
<p>Most of the time, after governments sign the peace treaties, the belligerent populations quickly bury the hatchet and resume normal trade and travel relations, especially when faced with a common threat, as did Western Europe after WWII.</p>
<p>If you watch movie and TV fiction about Viet Nam, it is often hard to discern who actually won from the story line.  And of course, revision and history re-writing is rampant. To this day, writing on the subject often emphasizes what we &#8220;gained&#8221; from that unfortunate adventure instead of the pointless waste which was its true legacy; or obsesses about how we were &#8220;betrayed&#8221; and &#8220;stabbed in the back&#8221; by traitors.  </p>
<p>To this day, the South is still fighting the Civil War over and over, playing &#8220;what if&#8221;, &#8220;if only&#8221; and the &#8220;blame game&#8221;, and whitewashing what happened, and why. Much the same happened in Germany after WWI, when the Germans were forced to accept a bitter and unfair peace even though their arms were never decisively defeated. </p>
<p>American domestic politics changed after Vietnam, too.  It became more divisive, more ideological.  It became more about ends than it did means. In some ways, we are still fighting that war, except we&#8217;re fighting it right here at home.</p>
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		<title>By: Eri</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/09/21/hikers-imprisoned-in-iran-have-been-freedi/#comment-6067</link>
		<dc:creator>Eri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2011 12:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=3815#comment-6067</guid>
		<description>VietNam was OUR generation&#039;s war so we are emotionally tied to it, an unpleasant tie.  WWII was before most of us were born.  It was the war of my mother and father&#039;s generation.  My mother had a hatred and distrust of the Japanese that was not logical.  It was her emotional tie to WWII that made the Japanese so hated by her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VietNam was OUR generation&#8217;s war so we are emotionally tied to it, an unpleasant tie.  WWII was before most of us were born.  It was the war of my mother and father&#8217;s generation.  My mother had a hatred and distrust of the Japanese that was not logical.  It was her emotional tie to WWII that made the Japanese so hated by her.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/09/21/hikers-imprisoned-in-iran-have-been-freedi/#comment-6049</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=3815#comment-6049</guid>
		<description>Not weird at all. Your remarks are quite revealing. We lost the Viet Nam war, our first defeat. But remember, we lost &quot;only&quot; 60,000 soldiers.   Over a million Vietnamese died while we were there, mostly civilians. 

The Vietnamese now welcome normal relations, tourism and trade with the US.  Hell, most of them weren&#039;t even born when the war ended, and to them we were just one in a long string of enemies, the French, the Japanese, the French again, their own civil war against the South, and after the US left, the Chinese and the Cambodians. And their country has a long history of fighting off invaders, stretching back to the Bronze Age.

For us, it was a symbol of our decline, the big turning point in our history; which is nonsense, of course.  Even the Romans at the height of their Empire got whupped occasionally by their enemies.

For them, it&#039;s not a grudge thing or a personal vendetta, like it is with us. It&#039;s over now.  They got over it.

Besides, even if we suffered a tactical defeat, we can always claim a strategic victory: Asia did not become Communist. That was our stated reason for going there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not weird at all. Your remarks are quite revealing. We lost the Viet Nam war, our first defeat. But remember, we lost &#8220;only&#8221; 60,000 soldiers.   Over a million Vietnamese died while we were there, mostly civilians. </p>
<p>The Vietnamese now welcome normal relations, tourism and trade with the US.  Hell, most of them weren&#8217;t even born when the war ended, and to them we were just one in a long string of enemies, the French, the Japanese, the French again, their own civil war against the South, and after the US left, the Chinese and the Cambodians. And their country has a long history of fighting off invaders, stretching back to the Bronze Age.</p>
<p>For us, it was a symbol of our decline, the big turning point in our history; which is nonsense, of course.  Even the Romans at the height of their Empire got whupped occasionally by their enemies.</p>
<p>For them, it&#8217;s not a grudge thing or a personal vendetta, like it is with us. It&#8217;s over now.  They got over it.</p>
<p>Besides, even if we suffered a tactical defeat, we can always claim a strategic victory: Asia did not become Communist. That was our stated reason for going there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/09/21/hikers-imprisoned-in-iran-have-been-freedi/#comment-6048</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=3815#comment-6048</guid>
		<description>I hear that Viet Nam is beautiful...but I could never go there...it is stamped in my brain forever with the Viet Nam War and our soldier&#039;s legacy they endured.

I don&#039;t feel that way particularly about Japan. I look forward to going to Germany. Weird.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear that Viet Nam is beautiful&#8230;but I could never go there&#8230;it is stamped in my brain forever with the Viet Nam War and our soldier&#8217;s legacy they endured.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t feel that way particularly about Japan. I look forward to going to Germany. Weird.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/09/21/hikers-imprisoned-in-iran-have-been-freedi/#comment-6042</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2011 02:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=3815#comment-6042</guid>
		<description>Their next vacation is to go hiking in beautiful North Korea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Their next vacation is to go hiking in beautiful North Korea.</p>
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