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	<title>Comments on: Obama wants to end the war on terror</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/02/obama-wants-to-end-the-war-on-terror/</link>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/02/obama-wants-to-end-the-war-on-terror/#comment-6683</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 14:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=4158#comment-6683</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;Little precedent??&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

I cannot believe you wrote that with a straight face.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Little precedent??&#8221;</p>
<p>I cannot believe you wrote that with a straight face.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/02/obama-wants-to-end-the-war-on-terror/#comment-6682</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 14:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=4158#comment-6682</guid>
		<description>Cripes, you can get pocket digital cameras that remember faces or can tell if someone blinked in the picture.  I can only imagine what the far end of that tech must be like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cripes, you can get pocket digital cameras that remember faces or can tell if someone blinked in the picture.  I can only imagine what the far end of that tech must be like.</p>
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		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/02/obama-wants-to-end-the-war-on-terror/#comment-6677</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 06:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=4158#comment-6677</guid>
		<description>The right&#039;s knee jerk reaction to oppose Obama on anything and everything has little precedent in post Civil War America.  They advocate individual mandates for health care since the death of Hillarycare, and the moment Obama embraces the idea (for the sole reason to get a couple republicans on board) they unanimously oppose him on it.  It is absolutely unquestionable that the republicans care FAR more about regaining power than helping the country climb out of the mess they created.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The right&#8217;s knee jerk reaction to oppose Obama on anything and everything has little precedent in post Civil War America.  They advocate individual mandates for health care since the death of Hillarycare, and the moment Obama embraces the idea (for the sole reason to get a couple republicans on board) they unanimously oppose him on it.  It is absolutely unquestionable that the republicans care FAR more about regaining power than helping the country climb out of the mess they created.</p>
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		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/02/obama-wants-to-end-the-war-on-terror/#comment-6676</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 06:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=4158#comment-6676</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the links! Lots of interesting data on that page.  Remember we&#039;re still far from getting the full scoop on these drones.  Supposedly there is some very advanced technology that they are using to identify their targets.  Obviously it is getting better all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the links! Lots of interesting data on that page.  Remember we&#8217;re still far from getting the full scoop on these drones.  Supposedly there is some very advanced technology that they are using to identify their targets.  Obviously it is getting better all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: VelociraptorBlade</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/02/obama-wants-to-end-the-war-on-terror/#comment-6670</link>
		<dc:creator>VelociraptorBlade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 03:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=4158#comment-6670</guid>
		<description>While it &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; seem possible that we can severely damage (and possibly end this current form) of Al Qaida, I have to agree with you on the fact that we don&#039;t see us winning the &quot;War on Terror&quot;.  These are the sort of things that always last throughout the ages, no matter what you do - just like the similar &quot;War on Drugs&quot;.  The best we can do is keep it at a minimum and, while we cannot pursue a policy of pure isolationism, to do our best to &lt;i&gt;stop pissing everyone off&lt;/i&gt; (Common sense, really).  Our first step should be to withdraw our support from Israel - and chances are, they won&#039;t last that long without us.  That alone should give us major kudos with the Middle East, and we won&#039;t even have to lift a finger (okay, maybe for the telephone calls, but other than that...)

Drone warfare sounds great at first (after all, no lives our being lost on our side) - but then you have to consider two bits of reality that will undoubtedly slap us in the face if we shift to it full on.  1), they could shift to drone warfare as well, and then the battles would get nowhere - not only could both sides mass-produce soldiers to &lt;a href=&quot;http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/zerg-rush#.Top-erIvnpc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;zerg rush&lt;/a&gt; each other, but they&#039;d be wasting copious amounts of money and materials.  B)   All these drones?  They&#039;re remotely controlled computers.  A little jamming here, a little hacking there, and all of a sudden you&#039;re troops are in the hand of a 9 year old script kiddie.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126102247889095011.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Or an insurgent&lt;/a&gt;.  Both are pretty bad

And if it wasn&#039;t the WMD&#039;s it would have been something else.  Also, does &lt;i&gt;anyone&lt;/i&gt; here remember our good reason for invading a foreign country and toppling it&#039;s government other than &quot;We thought they had nukes&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it <i>does</i> seem possible that we can severely damage (and possibly end this current form) of Al Qaida, I have to agree with you on the fact that we don&#8217;t see us winning the &#8220;War on Terror&#8221;.  These are the sort of things that always last throughout the ages, no matter what you do &#8211; just like the similar &#8220;War on Drugs&#8221;.  The best we can do is keep it at a minimum and, while we cannot pursue a policy of pure isolationism, to do our best to <i>stop pissing everyone off</i> (Common sense, really).  Our first step should be to withdraw our support from Israel &#8211; and chances are, they won&#8217;t last that long without us.  That alone should give us major kudos with the Middle East, and we won&#8217;t even have to lift a finger (okay, maybe for the telephone calls, but other than that&#8230;)</p>
<p>Drone warfare sounds great at first (after all, no lives our being lost on our side) &#8211; but then you have to consider two bits of reality that will undoubtedly slap us in the face if we shift to it full on.  1), they could shift to drone warfare as well, and then the battles would get nowhere &#8211; not only could both sides mass-produce soldiers to <a href="http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/zerg-rush#.Top-erIvnpc" rel="nofollow">zerg rush</a> each other, but they&#8217;d be wasting copious amounts of money and materials.  B)   All these drones?  They&#8217;re remotely controlled computers.  A little jamming here, a little hacking there, and all of a sudden you&#8217;re troops are in the hand of a 9 year old script kiddie.  <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126102247889095011.html" rel="nofollow">Or an insurgent</a>.  Both are pretty bad</p>
<p>And if it wasn&#8217;t the WMD&#8217;s it would have been something else.  Also, does <i>anyone</i> here remember our good reason for invading a foreign country and toppling it&#8217;s government other than &#8220;We thought they had nukes&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/02/obama-wants-to-end-the-war-on-terror/#comment-6635</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 16:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=4158#comment-6635</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Check it out:&lt;/p&gt;

Look at this chart from &lt;a href=&quot;http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/drones&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;img src=&quot;http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/program_pages/attachments/dronesdeaths04to10_3.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;Drone hits&quot; /&gt;

Look at how the ratios change with the new tech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check it out:</p>
<p>Look at this chart from <a href="http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/drones" rel="nofollow">this article:</a></p>
<p><img src="http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/program_pages/attachments/dronesdeaths04to10_3.jpg" alt="Drone hits" /></p>
<p>Look at how the ratios change with the new tech.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/02/obama-wants-to-end-the-war-on-terror/#comment-6630</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 16:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=4158#comment-6630</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve been following the technology in places like &lt;em&gt;Aviation Week&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;  Apparently the CIA has recently (past couple of years) developed a smaller Predator-mounted missile and far more sophisticated spy drones and targeting systems.

The result is the ability to make pinpoint attacks with far fewer civilian casualties.

News story &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/25/AR2010042503114_pf.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;

This kind of thing not only revolutionizes the War on Terror, but could revolutionize &quot;conventional&quot; war as well.

Sitting at home watching TV with the kids while political leaders and generals pop each other off in an Ultimate Cage Match?  Beats being carpet bombed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been following the technology in places like <em>Aviation Week</em>.</p>
<p>  Apparently the CIA has recently (past couple of years) developed a smaller Predator-mounted missile and far more sophisticated spy drones and targeting systems.</p>
<p>The result is the ability to make pinpoint attacks with far fewer civilian casualties.</p>
<p>News story <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/25/AR2010042503114_pf.html" rel="nofollow">here.</a></p>
<p>This kind of thing not only revolutionizes the War on Terror, but could revolutionize &#8220;conventional&#8221; war as well.</p>
<p>Sitting at home watching TV with the kids while political leaders and generals pop each other off in an Ultimate Cage Match?  Beats being carpet bombed.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/02/obama-wants-to-end-the-war-on-terror/#comment-6625</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 11:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=4158#comment-6625</guid>
		<description>It is possible to overlay the Right&#039;s
growing flirtation with isolationism and &quot;peace&quot; alongside Obama&#039;s increasingly aggressive and successful war against Al-Quaeda.  It&#039;s a perfect correlation.  Why are they suddenly questioning what they always boosted so enthusiastically?
Could it be that their new found dovish tendencies are solely due to the fear Obama might get some credit for showing some talent in that area?

The pivot point where the curves crossed was Libya, where the Right couldn&#039;t get its story straight and split down the middle; sometimes, the same guys urging both more military action and less, often within a few days of each other. Obama deftly finessed that one, simultaneously claiming the credit and avoiding the risks, and left them in total disarray in the foreign policy area. The myths of weak, indecisive Democrats who are soft on national defense are now being replaced by the reverse meme, that they are aggressive adventurists and engaged in (the horror), &quot;nation building&quot;. What utter bilge.

My guess is the next thing we&#039;ll be hearing from this crowd is why we should stay in Iraq, but get out of Afghanistan. After all, Iraq is where all the oil is, as Cheney quickly realized. 

But realistically, we will never eliminate Jihadism altogether.  We can crush its financing, organization and infrastructure, as we are well on the way to doing, but as a movement it will always be there, just as there are still militant black organizations and skinhead white supremacists.  These are grass-roots movements, and like cockroaches, you can control them but you can&#039;t exterminate them. In fact, it can be argued our military presence in the MidEast, no matter how benign or effective, is the Jihadist&#039;s main &lt;em&gt;raison d&#039;etre&lt;/em&gt; and most effective recruiting tool.  Without us, they&#039;ll only have Israel to justify their fanaticism.

Is it time to leave? We are rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns against Al-Quaeda, where continued war won&#039;t substantially reduce them any further, but where they may flare back up if we simply abandon the fight.  I don&#039;t know what to recommend next here, I just don&#039;t have all the facts. Perhaps no one can answer that question for sure. But I hope the President has those facts. And I hope he makes the right decision.   

I do know one thing. In power, the Right will reflexively do the wrong thing, just the opposite of whatever Obama would do. Other than creating a &lt;em&gt;carte blanche&lt;/em&gt; and get-out-of-jail-free card for their corporate bankrollers and paying off their political debt to the wackofundos, discrediting Obama is their only policy position. 

Just think, if it hadn&#039;t of been for those alleged WMDs and contrived Iraqi Al-Quaeda links, this would probably all be over right now.  No, the right wing bullshit machine never had it right. Not from the start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is possible to overlay the Right&#8217;s<br />
growing flirtation with isolationism and &#8220;peace&#8221; alongside Obama&#8217;s increasingly aggressive and successful war against Al-Quaeda.  It&#8217;s a perfect correlation.  Why are they suddenly questioning what they always boosted so enthusiastically?<br />
Could it be that their new found dovish tendencies are solely due to the fear Obama might get some credit for showing some talent in that area?</p>
<p>The pivot point where the curves crossed was Libya, where the Right couldn&#8217;t get its story straight and split down the middle; sometimes, the same guys urging both more military action and less, often within a few days of each other. Obama deftly finessed that one, simultaneously claiming the credit and avoiding the risks, and left them in total disarray in the foreign policy area. The myths of weak, indecisive Democrats who are soft on national defense are now being replaced by the reverse meme, that they are aggressive adventurists and engaged in (the horror), &#8220;nation building&#8221;. What utter bilge.</p>
<p>My guess is the next thing we&#8217;ll be hearing from this crowd is why we should stay in Iraq, but get out of Afghanistan. After all, Iraq is where all the oil is, as Cheney quickly realized. </p>
<p>But realistically, we will never eliminate Jihadism altogether.  We can crush its financing, organization and infrastructure, as we are well on the way to doing, but as a movement it will always be there, just as there are still militant black organizations and skinhead white supremacists.  These are grass-roots movements, and like cockroaches, you can control them but you can&#8217;t exterminate them. In fact, it can be argued our military presence in the MidEast, no matter how benign or effective, is the Jihadist&#8217;s main <em>raison d&#8217;etre</em> and most effective recruiting tool.  Without us, they&#8217;ll only have Israel to justify their fanaticism.</p>
<p>Is it time to leave? We are rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns against Al-Quaeda, where continued war won&#8217;t substantially reduce them any further, but where they may flare back up if we simply abandon the fight.  I don&#8217;t know what to recommend next here, I just don&#8217;t have all the facts. Perhaps no one can answer that question for sure. But I hope the President has those facts. And I hope he makes the right decision.   </p>
<p>I do know one thing. In power, the Right will reflexively do the wrong thing, just the opposite of whatever Obama would do. Other than creating a <em>carte blanche</em> and get-out-of-jail-free card for their corporate bankrollers and paying off their political debt to the wackofundos, discrediting Obama is their only policy position. </p>
<p>Just think, if it hadn&#8217;t of been for those alleged WMDs and contrived Iraqi Al-Quaeda links, this would probably all be over right now.  No, the right wing bullshit machine never had it right. Not from the start.</p>
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