Comments on: TB – at the bottom of the “Grasshopper thread”. https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/ Tue, 21 Apr 2026 18:22:20 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: TB https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/#comment-7945 TB Fri, 28 Oct 2011 14:06:16 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=4919#comment-7945 Sure. Start with Madoff, then go to Enron, and run down your list. You might note that you run off the same few examples each time. One of the most quaint beliefs of the Left is that if you put a government bureaucrat in charge of things, suddenly corruption, greed, selfishness, and all the rest are no longer part of the equation. Got a problem? Pass more regulations. And more and more and more and more and more. Surely someday we will write the Golden Law that makes disasters impossible, criminals disappear, and poverty vanish. Give us the power of gods and all your wealth, the politicians say, and we will build you the Kingdom of Heaven. Heard it all before. I've looked at the past century. I've seen the ideas and philosophies that end nations and humanity. I've also seen the ideas and philosophies that create prosperity, peace, and the greatest productivity in history. The verdict was in on that a long time ago. And now, as Europe reels under the liberal ideal of "social democracy," we can see that particular chimera doesn't seem to work any better than the pure forms of collectivism. Are we back to financial impact as the criteria again? I thought we were measuring morality. If we're back to financial impact, then unfunded liabilities are back on top. And we haven't even touched on the massive economic impact landing on us from the government social entitlement versions of those. Sure. Start with Madoff, then go to Enron, and run down your list. You might note that you run off the same few examples each time.

One of the most quaint beliefs of the Left is that if you put a government bureaucrat in charge of things, suddenly corruption, greed, selfishness, and all the rest are no longer part of the equation. Got a problem? Pass more regulations. And more and more and more and more and more. Surely someday we will write the Golden Law that makes disasters impossible, criminals disappear, and poverty vanish. Give us the power of gods and all your wealth, the politicians say, and we will build you the Kingdom of Heaven.

Heard it all before.

I’ve looked at the past century. I’ve seen the ideas and philosophies that end nations and humanity. I’ve also seen the ideas and philosophies that create prosperity, peace, and the greatest productivity in history. The verdict was in on that a long time ago. And now, as Europe reels under the liberal ideal of “social democracy,” we can see that particular chimera doesn’t seem to work any better than the pure forms of collectivism.

Are we back to financial impact as the criteria again? I thought we were measuring morality. If we’re back to financial impact, then unfunded liabilities are back on top. And we haven’t even touched on the massive economic impact landing on us from the government social entitlement versions of those.

]]> By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/#comment-7943 bowser Fri, 28 Oct 2011 06:53:02 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=4919#comment-7943 Start with Madoff and work backward. How many businessmen and women have been indicted? What was the financial impact of those folks? You are so blinded by hatred of "leftists" you cannot see past the fire in your eyes. And can't see that short-term, rapacious profit at the expense of everything else will be the end of mankind. Even Greenspan said that there needed to be more regulation. More regulation. He should know. Arf Start with Madoff and work backward. How many businessmen and women have been indicted? What was the financial impact of those folks?

You are so blinded by hatred of “leftists” you cannot see past the fire in your eyes.

And can’t see that short-term, rapacious profit at the expense of everything else will be the end of mankind.

Even Greenspan said that there needed to be more regulation. More regulation. He should know.

Arf

]]> By: TB https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/#comment-7942 TB Fri, 28 Oct 2011 03:08:47 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=4919#comment-7942 Look, there were over 1,000 indictments of union leaders and administrative personnel (not the members) between 2001 and 2008. Over 900 convictions. I hinted at the CalPERS misbehavior, which actually involved exploiting ENRON stock. They have cheated in elections, used violence in disputes, and have a long history of criminal activities. About half of the Department of Labor Inspector General's labor racketeering investigations involve pensions and employee welfare benefit plans. We could go into convictions on violence and a lot of things worse than screwing a stockholder. If your only criteria for corruption is the total dollar value of the crime, then maybe you're using the wrong meter. And yeah, I don't see that much difference in selling someone a stock you know is going to end up worthless and promising someone a pension you know damn well there's no money for. Look, there were over 1,000 indictments of union leaders and administrative personnel (not the members) between 2001 and 2008. Over 900 convictions. I hinted at the CalPERS misbehavior, which actually involved exploiting ENRON stock. They have cheated in elections, used violence in disputes, and have a long history of criminal activities. About half of the Department of Labor Inspector General’s labor racketeering investigations involve pensions and employee welfare benefit plans. We could go into convictions on violence and a lot of things worse than screwing a stockholder.

If your only criteria for corruption is the total dollar value of the crime, then maybe you’re using the wrong meter.

And yeah, I don’t see that much difference in selling someone a stock you know is going to end up worthless and promising someone a pension you know damn well there’s no money for.

]]> By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/#comment-7941 bowser Fri, 28 Oct 2011 02:46:31 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=4919#comment-7941 Sometime let's discuss the importance of sticking to a topic, not changing the subject, not trying to compare apples with cell phones or power lines with short stories. It really is important when one is comparing the magnitude of thievery between Unions and Management to leave out unfunded liability. It doesn't compute. If it does compute one does not understand. TB, it really is that simple. Unfunded liability is an entirely different matter, a situation employers, both public and private, find themselves in when they agree to pay more in pensions than they set aside. A unfunded liability is fighting a war without raising taxes, borrowing money which the next administration has to pay back. It is not illegal or crooked, and it is NOT a Union function. Sometime let’s discuss the importance of sticking to a topic, not changing the subject, not trying to compare apples with cell phones or power lines with short stories. It really is important when one is comparing the magnitude of thievery between Unions and Management to leave out unfunded liability. It doesn’t compute. If it does compute one does not understand.

TB, it really is that simple. Unfunded liability is an entirely different matter, a situation employers, both public and private, find themselves in when they agree to pay more in pensions than they set aside.

A unfunded liability is fighting a war without raising taxes, borrowing money which the next administration has to pay back.

It is not illegal or crooked, and it is NOT a Union function.

]]> By: RobVG https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/#comment-7938 RobVG Fri, 28 Oct 2011 01:23:37 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=4919#comment-7938 <p>And in Washington State...</p> <a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2013619517_edit08split.html" rel="nofollow">Gregoire knuckles under</a> And in Washington State…

Gregoire knuckles under

]]> By: TB https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/#comment-7936 TB Fri, 28 Oct 2011 00:44:28 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=4919#comment-7936 Meanwhile... <a href="http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/27/next-governor-to-challenge-peu-establishment-jerry-brown/" rel="nofollow">In California</a> Meanwhile…

In California

]]> By: TB https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/#comment-7935 TB Fri, 28 Oct 2011 00:40:03 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=4919#comment-7935 Especially in Chicago. Especially in Chicago.

]]> By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/#comment-7933 bowser Fri, 28 Oct 2011 00:05:59 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=4919#comment-7933 "Hell, just mention “Teamsters” to most people, and see what image comes to mind." “Hell, just mention “Teamsters” to most people, and see what image comes to mind.”

]]> By: TB https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/#comment-7929 TB Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:32:18 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=4919#comment-7929 "Reasonable discourse" is where information makes a difference. Hence the term "reason." You simply discarded almost all of my post. What the hell does the late Jimmy Hoffa have to do with it? I didn't even bring him into the conversation. Look at the modern unions, and their record on corruption. Union fraud from 2001 to 2008 alone resulted in more than 1,000 indictments, and over 900 convictions. “Reasonable discourse” is where information makes a difference. Hence the term “reason.”

You simply discarded almost all of my post. What the hell does the late Jimmy Hoffa have to do with it? I didn’t even bring him into the conversation. Look at the modern unions, and their record on corruption. Union fraud from 2001 to 2008 alone resulted in more than 1,000 indictments, and over 900 convictions.

]]> By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2011/10/26/tb-at-the-bottom-of-the-grasshopper-thread/#comment-7927 bowser Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:20:08 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=4919#comment-7927 I give up. There is no way to have a reasonable discourse. Jimmy Hoffa got and deserves a bad rap. His impact on Union retirement funds was nothing compared to Enron. Absolutely nothing. His membership's pensions thrived under him. Check Enron's. And, under Hoffa, the Teamsters were Republican. I'm sorry your son had that experience and I know Unions struggle with applying initiation fees to temporary help. Usually they do it the way they did with your son. They wait 3 or 4 months before expecting the person to join. That happened to me with three of the Unions to which I have belonged. Meantime, I accrued benefits. Which doesn't mean much to a part-time worker. I give up. There is no way to have a reasonable discourse. Jimmy Hoffa got and deserves a bad rap. His impact on Union retirement funds was nothing compared to Enron. Absolutely nothing. His membership’s pensions thrived under him. Check Enron’s.

And, under Hoffa, the Teamsters were Republican.

I’m sorry your son had that experience and I know Unions struggle with applying initiation fees to temporary help. Usually they do it the way they did with your son. They wait 3 or 4 months before expecting the person to join. That happened to me with three of the Unions to which I have belonged. Meantime, I accrued benefits. Which doesn’t mean much to a part-time worker.

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