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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Would The World Be Better Off Without Religion?&#8221;</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/11/21/would-the-world-be-better-off-without-religion/</link>
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		<title>By: johannes</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/11/21/would-the-world-be-better-off-without-religion/#comment-8807</link>
		<dc:creator>johannes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2011 02:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5435#comment-8807</guid>
		<description>I agree that; the role of money in societies and cultures is an interesting topic.
Unfortunately I have not studied that subject thoroughly enough to give any scientifically reliable information on such matters.
Thinking about your statement of:  “there is no basic difference between churches and nations except on which part of existence they exert influence.” made me realise that you are, at least partly, correct.
According to my casual observation of the two systems, both systems teach people.  Nations fund schools that teach people to understand the physical world.  Churches (try to) teach people to understand the spiritual/emotional side of their lives.  If everyone would know everything about the physical and the spiritual/emotional side of everything, then there would be no need to teach anyone anything, and money would not be needed, but such a condition can never be, because there is always something to learn.

As for CEO and janitors;  I suspect the if the janitors job was essential to the existence of a company and the CEO was not, then the janitor would get a better pay than the CEO.
It also seems to me that the amount of income and how it is obtained by an organization has a lot to do with how much can be given to the employees and the CEO.
For instance if I was a owner/CEO of a company and you were an employee, and I would give you a pay that would be to your liking, the company would be making some widgets that would be sold for enough profit to give you your wage and I would get, say, a dollar from the total of widgets that you make every day.  Would that be fair?  I would be making a dollar a day and you would be making, say, eight hundred dollars a day.
Now suppose the widget sales would increase so that the company could hire 10 more people at the same rate of pay as yours, the total wages for the employees would be $8000.00 per day and I would get $10.00 per day.  Would that be fair?
Now suppose that the widget market would really go through the roof, I would need to hire 10,000 people to make them world wide, so, making a dollar a day from each employees efforts I would be making $10,000.00 a day, would that be fair?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that; the role of money in societies and cultures is an interesting topic.<br />
Unfortunately I have not studied that subject thoroughly enough to give any scientifically reliable information on such matters.<br />
Thinking about your statement of:  “there is no basic difference between churches and nations except on which part of existence they exert influence.” made me realise that you are, at least partly, correct.<br />
According to my casual observation of the two systems, both systems teach people.  Nations fund schools that teach people to understand the physical world.  Churches (try to) teach people to understand the spiritual/emotional side of their lives.  If everyone would know everything about the physical and the spiritual/emotional side of everything, then there would be no need to teach anyone anything, and money would not be needed, but such a condition can never be, because there is always something to learn.</p>
<p>As for CEO and janitors;  I suspect the if the janitors job was essential to the existence of a company and the CEO was not, then the janitor would get a better pay than the CEO.<br />
It also seems to me that the amount of income and how it is obtained by an organization has a lot to do with how much can be given to the employees and the CEO.<br />
For instance if I was a owner/CEO of a company and you were an employee, and I would give you a pay that would be to your liking, the company would be making some widgets that would be sold for enough profit to give you your wage and I would get, say, a dollar from the total of widgets that you make every day.  Would that be fair?  I would be making a dollar a day and you would be making, say, eight hundred dollars a day.<br />
Now suppose the widget sales would increase so that the company could hire 10 more people at the same rate of pay as yours, the total wages for the employees would be $8000.00 per day and I would get $10.00 per day.  Would that be fair?<br />
Now suppose that the widget market would really go through the roof, I would need to hire 10,000 people to make them world wide, so, making a dollar a day from each employees efforts I would be making $10,000.00 a day, would that be fair?</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/11/21/would-the-world-be-better-off-without-religion/#comment-8741</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2011 02:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5435#comment-8741</guid>
		<description>The role of money in societies and cultures is an interesting topic and as you point out money is not related to productivity or work.  In the US there is NO relationship of money to work.  CEO make millions for doing very little work, even intellectual, while janitors make next to nothing.

Churches and evangelists obtain billions for little or no &quot;work&quot; beyond promising a great afterlife.  Way out of proportion to what they produce.

Nations provide protection and the financial structure from which money is derived.  They deserve something from that.

And my point that there is no basic difference between churches and nations except on which part of existence they exert influence seems to stand up, at least to me.  That was stimulated by your posts, and I thank you for it.

Arf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The role of money in societies and cultures is an interesting topic and as you point out money is not related to productivity or work.  In the US there is NO relationship of money to work.  CEO make millions for doing very little work, even intellectual, while janitors make next to nothing.</p>
<p>Churches and evangelists obtain billions for little or no &#8220;work&#8221; beyond promising a great afterlife.  Way out of proportion to what they produce.</p>
<p>Nations provide protection and the financial structure from which money is derived.  They deserve something from that.</p>
<p>And my point that there is no basic difference between churches and nations except on which part of existence they exert influence seems to stand up, at least to me.  That was stimulated by your posts, and I thank you for it.</p>
<p>Arf</p>
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		<title>By: johannes</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/11/21/would-the-world-be-better-off-without-religion/#comment-8709</link>
		<dc:creator>johannes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5435#comment-8709</guid>
		<description>Churches and States do want and need money, but money is basically, ideally, and usually, only a representation of work done or a reward for effort that benefits society.
If you and I would get what we need and want by doing what we enjoy doing, then we would not need money.  The same would work for churches and states.  It would be a sort of a barter system of abilities.
Mr. A would do something for Mr. B and Mr. B would do something for Mr. C and so on, then Mr. X would do something for Mr. A and every one would be happy, naturally in that kind of world people would have no jealous feelings or any other negative emotions.
But alas, such a utopian concept can not work in our imperfect world, and that is why we must endure all the hardships that come our way.

I think that the expression of dissatisfaction depends on the degree and behaviour of the dissatisfied, if it did not, then we would not need the police forces or military forces.

At least that’s the way I see it at this moment in time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Churches and States do want and need money, but money is basically, ideally, and usually, only a representation of work done or a reward for effort that benefits society.<br />
If you and I would get what we need and want by doing what we enjoy doing, then we would not need money.  The same would work for churches and states.  It would be a sort of a barter system of abilities.<br />
Mr. A would do something for Mr. B and Mr. B would do something for Mr. C and so on, then Mr. X would do something for Mr. A and every one would be happy, naturally in that kind of world people would have no jealous feelings or any other negative emotions.<br />
But alas, such a utopian concept can not work in our imperfect world, and that is why we must endure all the hardships that come our way.</p>
<p>I think that the expression of dissatisfaction depends on the degree and behaviour of the dissatisfied, if it did not, then we would not need the police forces or military forces.</p>
<p>At least that’s the way I see it at this moment in time.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/11/21/would-the-world-be-better-off-without-religion/#comment-8698</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5435#comment-8698</guid>
		<description>Now that I think about it there is very little difference between religions and the State.  Both demand money, allegiance and your life.

One will take care of you in this existence, one in the next.

Haven&#039;t really thought about it, but consider this.  If one expresses dissatisfaction with some aspect of their country, jingoists start hollering, &quot;Love it or leave it!&quot;

If one expresses dissatisfaction with their religion, it&#039;s the same cry.  Or be thrown out.

Both have a specific set of beliefs, neither tolerates a challenge to the power structure, and so on.

Interesting.

Arf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that I think about it there is very little difference between religions and the State.  Both demand money, allegiance and your life.</p>
<p>One will take care of you in this existence, one in the next.</p>
<p>Haven&#8217;t really thought about it, but consider this.  If one expresses dissatisfaction with some aspect of their country, jingoists start hollering, &#8220;Love it or leave it!&#8221;</p>
<p>If one expresses dissatisfaction with their religion, it&#8217;s the same cry.  Or be thrown out.</p>
<p>Both have a specific set of beliefs, neither tolerates a challenge to the power structure, and so on.</p>
<p>Interesting.</p>
<p>Arf</p>
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		<title>By: johannes</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/11/21/would-the-world-be-better-off-without-religion/#comment-8692</link>
		<dc:creator>johannes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 04:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5435#comment-8692</guid>
		<description>The problems of the world do not arise from religion, they arise from arrogance, misunderstandings and fear, as explained by the writer of the following words.  

Excerpts from a book that I read back in 1956:
Man is a strange creature! And this is true wherever you find him throughout the vast Universe. Although the Race of Man as a whole prefers to live in peace and harmony with all creation, here and there a few will grow in personal ego and aggressiveness, and through greed will desire to assume power over other men. This can happen even on our worlds, despite the teaching which bids man live in accordance with the Divine Laws.” 
So, centuries ago, in a meeting among the teachers of wisdom on many planets, it was decided to ship such selfish ones to new planets capable of maintaining Human life. In such cases, the planet of slowest development in many systems was selected for the exile of such culprits. 
“So, for the reasons that I have just mentioned, the Earth in our system was chosen for the new home of these unruly ones from many planets inside and outside of our system. These exiles were what you on Earth call ‘trouble-makers.’ We could neither destroy nor confine them, since that is contrary to the universal laws. But as these people were all of the same arrogant nature, it was felt that, since none would yield to the other, they would eventually be forced to work out their own harmony. 

“As time went on and the population increased, out of the original tribes arose self-exalted men who began to differentiate between the several races. Each demanded the rulership of the whole people, professing to have come from a planet further advanced than all the others, and by that right entitled to the ruling power. 
As time went on, however, the self-appointed rulers became more and more powerful, and our efforts of less and less avail. The divisions continued and increased, finally resulting in the establishment of what you today call ‘nations.” 
“The establishment of nations further separated brother from brother, and the whole of mankind lived no longer by the Divine Law. 
“As a result of these divisions; many different ways of worship arose. But even then we continued to send others out in the hope of aiding our brothers on Earth. These men were those known as ‘Messiahs,’ and their mission was to help their Earthly brothers to return to their original understanding. In each instance, a few followers would gather around these wise ones, but always they were destroyed by those whom they had come to serve. 

Only when Earth men learn, by their own mistakes, that what they look upon as their strength is really weakness when pitted against the All-Divine Intelligence, and that their ‘wisdom’ but confusion against the All-Knowledge, will they be ready to return to the fold. 
“Meanwhile, we keep ourselves ever alerted to receive the call for whatever help men of Earth may truly desire, for they are still our brothers.” 

The book is on the web at:    http://www.thenewearth.org/InsideTheSpaceShips.html#5</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problems of the world do not arise from religion, they arise from arrogance, misunderstandings and fear, as explained by the writer of the following words.  </p>
<p>Excerpts from a book that I read back in 1956:<br />
Man is a strange creature! And this is true wherever you find him throughout the vast Universe. Although the Race of Man as a whole prefers to live in peace and harmony with all creation, here and there a few will grow in personal ego and aggressiveness, and through greed will desire to assume power over other men. This can happen even on our worlds, despite the teaching which bids man live in accordance with the Divine Laws.”<br />
So, centuries ago, in a meeting among the teachers of wisdom on many planets, it was decided to ship such selfish ones to new planets capable of maintaining Human life. In such cases, the planet of slowest development in many systems was selected for the exile of such culprits.<br />
“So, for the reasons that I have just mentioned, the Earth in our system was chosen for the new home of these unruly ones from many planets inside and outside of our system. These exiles were what you on Earth call ‘trouble-makers.’ We could neither destroy nor confine them, since that is contrary to the universal laws. But as these people were all of the same arrogant nature, it was felt that, since none would yield to the other, they would eventually be forced to work out their own harmony. </p>
<p>“As time went on and the population increased, out of the original tribes arose self-exalted men who began to differentiate between the several races. Each demanded the rulership of the whole people, professing to have come from a planet further advanced than all the others, and by that right entitled to the ruling power.<br />
As time went on, however, the self-appointed rulers became more and more powerful, and our efforts of less and less avail. The divisions continued and increased, finally resulting in the establishment of what you today call ‘nations.”<br />
“The establishment of nations further separated brother from brother, and the whole of mankind lived no longer by the Divine Law.<br />
“As a result of these divisions; many different ways of worship arose. But even then we continued to send others out in the hope of aiding our brothers on Earth. These men were those known as ‘Messiahs,’ and their mission was to help their Earthly brothers to return to their original understanding. In each instance, a few followers would gather around these wise ones, but always they were destroyed by those whom they had come to serve. </p>
<p>Only when Earth men learn, by their own mistakes, that what they look upon as their strength is really weakness when pitted against the All-Divine Intelligence, and that their ‘wisdom’ but confusion against the All-Knowledge, will they be ready to return to the fold.<br />
“Meanwhile, we keep ourselves ever alerted to receive the call for whatever help men of Earth may truly desire, for they are still our brothers.” </p>
<p>The book is on the web at:    <a href="http://www.thenewearth.org/InsideTheSpaceShips.html#5" rel="nofollow">http://www.thenewearth.org/InsideTheSpaceShips.html#5</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eri</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/11/21/would-the-world-be-better-off-without-religion/#comment-8648</link>
		<dc:creator>Eri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5435#comment-8648</guid>
		<description>Updated Version: They shall cheat their books into Dow shares and their Wall Street Gurus into Untouchables.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Updated Version: They shall cheat their books into Dow shares and their Wall Street Gurus into Untouchables.</p>
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		<title>By: FrankC</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/11/21/would-the-world-be-better-off-without-religion/#comment-8635</link>
		<dc:creator>FrankC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 06:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5435#comment-8635</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s one we can agree on&lt;/p&gt;

And they shall beat their Holy Books into plowshares and their Holy Men into pruning hooks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s one we can agree on</p>
<p>And they shall beat their Holy Books into plowshares and their Holy Men into pruning hooks.</p>
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