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	<title>Comments on: I was talking with a friend tonight.</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/</link>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/#comment-9453</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 02:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5851#comment-9453</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Reasonable?&lt;/p&gt;

Let me ask you this.

In the US, there are 828 motor vehicles* per 1000 people. 

In China there are 37. 

Can you honestly say that per capita measurements in this instance are a fair way judge the two countries? 




 

* All figures include automobiles, SUVs, vans, and commercial vehicles; and exclude motorcycles and other motorized two-wheelers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reasonable?</p>
<p>Let me ask you this.</p>
<p>In the US, there are 828 motor vehicles* per 1000 people. </p>
<p>In China there are 37. </p>
<p>Can you honestly say that per capita measurements in this instance are a fair way judge the two countries? </p>
<p>* All figures include automobiles, SUVs, vans, and commercial vehicles; and exclude motorcycles and other motorized two-wheelers.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/#comment-9394</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2011 06:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5851#comment-9394</guid>
		<description>Per capita, the only reasonable measure, the US wins hands down.  

And the US didn&#039;t compromise, did it?  For whatever reason it displayed no ability to negotiate.

Can&#039;t deny that, either.

This is a perfect demonstration of what I was talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Per capita, the only reasonable measure, the US wins hands down.  </p>
<p>And the US didn&#8217;t compromise, did it?  For whatever reason it displayed no ability to negotiate.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t deny that, either.</p>
<p>This is a perfect demonstration of what I was talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/#comment-9384</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2011 00:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5851#comment-9384</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t see anything in that article that implied that the main problem was the United States not knowing how to compromise.  Is it reasonable to allow India and China to pollute while putting the U.S. in &quot;shackles?&quot;

Note that China is &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;putting out considerably more CO2 than the U.S.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t see anything in that article that implied that the main problem was the United States not knowing how to compromise.  Is it reasonable to allow India and China to pollute while putting the U.S. in &#8220;shackles?&#8221;</p>
<p>Note that China is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions" rel="nofollow">putting out considerably more CO2 than the U.S.</a></p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/#comment-9381</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 22:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5851#comment-9381</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a perfect example.  In a perfect world the US could take the lead, as the richest nation, farthest seeing, wisest.  However, the US doesn&#039;t know how to compromise, and ensures future stressors are more severe.

I obviously think that&#039;s &quot;bad&quot;, and think this post is simply reportage of a process which will have consequences affecting all mankind.

&quot;DURBAN -- Ministers fought to save U.N. climate talks from collapse on Saturday, searching to narrow differences between rich and poor nations over how quickly to fight global warming.&quot;
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/10/9350157-ministers-battle-to-save-un-climate-talks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a perfect example.  In a perfect world the US could take the lead, as the richest nation, farthest seeing, wisest.  However, the US doesn&#8217;t know how to compromise, and ensures future stressors are more severe.</p>
<p>I obviously think that&#8217;s &#8220;bad&#8221;, and think this post is simply reportage of a process which will have consequences affecting all mankind.</p>
<p>&#8220;DURBAN &#8212; Ministers fought to save U.N. climate talks from collapse on Saturday, searching to narrow differences between rich and poor nations over how quickly to fight global warming.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/10/9350157-ministers-battle-to-save-un-climate-talks" rel="nofollow">http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/10/9350157-ministers-battle-to-save-un-climate-talks</a></p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/#comment-9380</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5851#comment-9380</guid>
		<description>Yeah, kind of like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, kind of like that.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/#comment-9379</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5851#comment-9379</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The conservative intelligentsia strikes back!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200307/shimerman02/320x240.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;.&quot; /&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The conservative intelligentsia strikes back!</p>
<p><img src="http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200307/shimerman02/320x240.jpg" alt="." /></p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/#comment-9378</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5851#comment-9378</guid>
		<description>With all due respect, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s vague at all.  Examples of it are the Tea Party&#039;s refusal to compromise, the signed statement of Republican Senators to block Obama, the people who say &quot;my country right or wrong&quot;, the people who see every American action as fighting for freedom, peach and democracy and the same actions of the enemy as terrorism.

The people who see the destruction of the WTC as unparalled terrorism and the destruction of a city of 300,000 as a necessary act of war, in order to free the remaining inhabitants from oppression.

Those are examples to which everyone who reads these boards can relate.  America is white, pure, and innocent with the best motives while the enemy has the worst motives and is dirty, sneaky and unfair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s vague at all.  Examples of it are the Tea Party&#8217;s refusal to compromise, the signed statement of Republican Senators to block Obama, the people who say &#8220;my country right or wrong&#8221;, the people who see every American action as fighting for freedom, peach and democracy and the same actions of the enemy as terrorism.</p>
<p>The people who see the destruction of the WTC as unparalled terrorism and the destruction of a city of 300,000 as a necessary act of war, in order to free the remaining inhabitants from oppression.</p>
<p>Those are examples to which everyone who reads these boards can relate.  America is white, pure, and innocent with the best motives while the enemy has the worst motives and is dirty, sneaky and unfair.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/#comment-9377</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5851#comment-9377</guid>
		<description>And a PS.  My problem with the firebombings at this point is that the US does not acknowledge them, or anything else, as terrorism on a grand scale.

As with the atomic bomb, I&#039;m not sure I wouldn&#039;t have ordered each and every bomb to be dropped.  And I&#039;m sure with time I would be able to recognize each and every one of the firebombings to have been useless and terrorism in every sense.

Accountability and responsibility are the mark of every being which deserves respect, don&#039;t you agree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And a PS.  My problem with the firebombings at this point is that the US does not acknowledge them, or anything else, as terrorism on a grand scale.</p>
<p>As with the atomic bomb, I&#8217;m not sure I wouldn&#8217;t have ordered each and every bomb to be dropped.  And I&#8217;m sure with time I would be able to recognize each and every one of the firebombings to have been useless and terrorism in every sense.</p>
<p>Accountability and responsibility are the mark of every being which deserves respect, don&#8217;t you agree?</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/#comment-9376</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 19:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5851#comment-9376</guid>
		<description>The definition of &quot;black and white thinking&quot; seems to be somewhat vague.  With observation over time and context here, the definition distills down to something more like &quot;any thinking that could prove me wrong.&quot;

Certainly it can&#039;t mean &quot;inflexibility of thought.&quot;  Otherwise, those who lecture us on &quot;black and white thinking&quot; wouldn&#039;t be writing so many posts dropping their own immutable judgments on things like collapsing concrete walls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The definition of &#8220;black and white thinking&#8221; seems to be somewhat vague.  With observation over time and context here, the definition distills down to something more like &#8220;any thinking that could prove me wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>Certainly it can&#8217;t mean &#8220;inflexibility of thought.&#8221;  Otherwise, those who lecture us on &#8220;black and white thinking&#8221; wouldn&#8217;t be writing so many posts dropping their own immutable judgments on things like collapsing concrete walls.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/10/i-was-talking-with-a-friend-tonight/#comment-9374</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 18:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5851#comment-9374</guid>
		<description>I believe if that post is read more carefully you wouldn&#039;t find it to be judgmental except in the sense that one interprets the situations as being good or bad.  And in those cases it&#039;s the readers issue, not the authors.

St. Paul is quoted as saying, &quot;When I was a boy I did the things a boy would do, and now that I&#039;m a man I do the things a man does.&quot;

On many occasions I have attempted to direct the wrath of God upon those black-and-white thinkers, accusing them of every moral transgression I could dredge up.  I was not in that post.

I tried to carefully point out that black and white thinking is a normal phase of development, quite useful in some conditions.  We all went through that phase.  What I did say was that it was young and immature, which is true.  There&#039;s no sense calling a larva a butterfly.  That doesn&#039;t mean the larva is bad or the butterfly is good.

And then I added as circumstances change it can be less and less useful, and then down right fatal..  Again, said without condemnation I can see.

I added, finally, that without a history of developing past that particular strategy it would be difficult to deal successfully with the rest of the world.

I&#039;ll stand by every word.  I do pity those thinkers, and at times worse than that.  And I do believe they will lead the US down a primrose path to destruction.  In that post  I don&#039;t think I said that was bad, or wrong, or that they were evil.

As a practical matter, I don&#039;t regard the demise of mankind as a particularly tragic occasion in the Grand Scheme of things.  In the sense of the bigger picture it would be a boon for most other species, and maybe something will develop with a better sense of it&#039;s debt to world around it.  We have not been good to each other or our world.  Now that paragraph is judgmental.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe if that post is read more carefully you wouldn&#8217;t find it to be judgmental except in the sense that one interprets the situations as being good or bad.  And in those cases it&#8217;s the readers issue, not the authors.</p>
<p>St. Paul is quoted as saying, &#8220;When I was a boy I did the things a boy would do, and now that I&#8217;m a man I do the things a man does.&#8221;</p>
<p>On many occasions I have attempted to direct the wrath of God upon those black-and-white thinkers, accusing them of every moral transgression I could dredge up.  I was not in that post.</p>
<p>I tried to carefully point out that black and white thinking is a normal phase of development, quite useful in some conditions.  We all went through that phase.  What I did say was that it was young and immature, which is true.  There&#8217;s no sense calling a larva a butterfly.  That doesn&#8217;t mean the larva is bad or the butterfly is good.</p>
<p>And then I added as circumstances change it can be less and less useful, and then down right fatal..  Again, said without condemnation I can see.</p>
<p>I added, finally, that without a history of developing past that particular strategy it would be difficult to deal successfully with the rest of the world.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stand by every word.  I do pity those thinkers, and at times worse than that.  And I do believe they will lead the US down a primrose path to destruction.  In that post  I don&#8217;t think I said that was bad, or wrong, or that they were evil.</p>
<p>As a practical matter, I don&#8217;t regard the demise of mankind as a particularly tragic occasion in the Grand Scheme of things.  In the sense of the bigger picture it would be a boon for most other species, and maybe something will develop with a better sense of it&#8217;s debt to world around it.  We have not been good to each other or our world.  Now that paragraph is judgmental.</p>
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