Comments on: In Kim’s death, an extensive intelligence failure https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/19/in-kims-death-an-extensive-intelligence-failure/ Mon, 06 Apr 2026 12:03:37 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/19/in-kims-death-an-extensive-intelligence-failure/#comment-9740 bowser Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:54:05 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=6029#comment-9740 ENIGMA was prior to the CIA. There are wins, losses, and ties. What I'm saying that's not heard is that the US losses were orders of magnitude greater than the wins. Walker - military codes and matters such as SOSUS. Enormous losses, huge. He's just one. Ames - Everything the CIA had on the Soviets, all agents, all information. For years. The Soviets rolled up every agent in the Soviet Union, something like 23 people after Ames turned. We got the odd person every once in a while, and some submarine wiretaps which were great but not real-time and not the sort of info passed by Ames. ENIGMA was prior to the CIA. There are wins, losses, and ties. What I’m saying that’s not heard is that the US losses were orders of magnitude greater than the wins.

Walker – military codes and matters such as SOSUS. Enormous losses, huge. He’s just one.

Ames – Everything the CIA had on the Soviets, all agents, all information. For years. The Soviets rolled up every agent in the Soviet Union, something like 23 people after Ames turned.

We got the odd person every once in a while, and some submarine wiretaps which were great but not real-time and not the sort of info passed by Ames.

]]> By: ER https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/19/in-kims-death-an-extensive-intelligence-failure/#comment-9722 ER Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:14:44 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=6029#comment-9722 Remember, we don't hear about all the defeats. And we don't hear about all the victories, either. We only hear when both sides realize they've won (or lost). Remember ENIGMA, and the Imperial Japanese Naval Cypher. Codebreakers win more wars than generals. Remember, we don’t hear about all the defeats. And we don’t hear about all the victories, either. We only hear when both sides realize they’ve won (or lost).

Remember ENIGMA, and the Imperial Japanese Naval Cypher. Codebreakers win more wars than generals.

]]> By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/19/in-kims-death-an-extensive-intelligence-failure/#comment-9717 bowser Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:46:38 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=6029#comment-9717 I couldn't agree with you more. What concerns me is the magnitude of some of these failures and the apparent responses. Walker's compromising military communications and SOSUS. We continued to rely upon both for years. Aldrich Ames - A complete disaster, for years. Same with Robert Hanssen - Everything gone, for years. Those aren't simply losses. They are the enemy reading the playbook, knowing the calls, AND owning the fullback. They are huge losses. I couldn’t agree with you more. What concerns me is the magnitude of some of these failures and the apparent responses.

Walker’s compromising military communications and SOSUS. We continued to rely upon both for years.

Aldrich Ames – A complete disaster, for years. Same with
Robert Hanssen – Everything gone, for years.

Those aren’t simply losses. They are the enemy reading the playbook, knowing the calls, AND owning the fullback. They are huge losses.

]]> By: ER https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/19/in-kims-death-an-extensive-intelligence-failure/#comment-9715 ER Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:15:58 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=6029#comment-9715 It's a war, the other side fights back. You win some and you lose some, and some are rained out. There is heroism and incompetence on both sides. In free societies we fight with one hand tied behind our back. In totalitarian societies, a huge proportion of their population defects, at great peril to themselves. And on both sides, there is the great friction of bureaucracy, because more than anything, espionage is mostly about data processing, not acquisition. Most spies clip articles out of newspapers and try to fit them into a pattern. Revisit this thread after you've finished watching those Le Carre videos. He used to be an intelligence officer. He says they are not autobiographical, but I bet they have a great insight into that world. It’s a war, the other side fights back. You win some and you lose some, and some are rained out. There is heroism and incompetence on both sides. In free societies we fight with one hand tied behind our back. In totalitarian societies, a huge proportion of their population defects, at great peril to themselves. And on both sides, there is the great friction of bureaucracy, because more than anything, espionage is mostly about data processing, not acquisition. Most spies clip articles out of newspapers and try to fit them into a pattern.

Revisit this thread after you’ve finished watching those Le Carre videos. He used to be an intelligence officer. He says they are not autobiographical, but I bet they have a great insight into that world.

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