Comments on: A serious question. What is the US mission in Afghanistan? https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/21/a-serious-question-what-is-the-us-mission-in-afghanistan/ Mon, 20 Apr 2026 21:56:17 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: ER https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/21/a-serious-question-what-is-the-us-mission-in-afghanistan/#comment-9832 ER Thu, 22 Dec 2011 05:19:22 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=6087#comment-9832 Although I wouldn't have agreed with you on Afghanistan until about a year ago, I think the time to bring it to an end is now here. In fact, I think Obama is dragging out the withdrawal much too long. I'd be out before the elections. In fact, that's probably why he's not doing anything, he's afraid it might turn ugly next fall while he was in the middle of a withdrawal. But things are not likely to get any better if we stay any longer, something unexpected could easily go terribly wrong: trouble with the Pakis, Iran, supply issues, hostage situations, etc. We do not control our supply lines, they are not secure, we cannot extricate ourselves quickly by air, there is no access by sea, it could easily turn into a Dieppe, or even a Dunkirk. We really need to get out of there. It is time to cut our losses, and simply announce we quit while we were still ahead. I never want to hear that "get those palefaces out of there" order again. Although I wouldn’t have agreed with you on Afghanistan until about a year ago, I think the time to bring it to an end is now here.

In fact, I think Obama is dragging out the withdrawal much too long. I’d be out before the elections. In fact, that’s probably why he’s not doing anything, he’s afraid it might turn ugly next fall while he was in the middle of a withdrawal.

But things are not likely to get any better if we stay any longer, something unexpected could easily go terribly wrong: trouble with the Pakis, Iran, supply issues, hostage situations, etc. We do not control our supply lines, they are not secure, we cannot extricate ourselves quickly by air, there is no access by sea, it could easily turn into a Dieppe, or even a Dunkirk. We really need to get out of there. It is time to cut our losses, and simply announce we quit while we were still ahead.

I never want to hear that “get those palefaces out of there” order again.

]]> By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/21/a-serious-question-what-is-the-us-mission-in-afghanistan/#comment-9828 bowser Thu, 22 Dec 2011 04:50:23 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=6087#comment-9828 I think I can disagree without much contradiction on Afghanistan, and with not much less on Iraq. Iraq is Kurdish, Shiite and Sunni more than it is Iraq. There isn't a lot of nationalism and it takes a strong, ruthless dictator to hold that artificial conglomeration together. Afghanistan is even less nationalistic in the sense Americans think of it. Their only loyalties are to their tribes, and they will kill anyone or thing which tries to take territory, or subvert their tribe's interests for a greater good. They didn't even band together to fight the Soviets. The individual tribes carried on individual wars. "The Bear Trap" is a book by the Pakistani general who funneled military aid provided by the Saudis, Chinese and Americans to the various tribes. (For an interesting read, research what happened to Soviet POWs captured by Afghanis. It's the moral equivalent of what the French do to Ortulan Buntings.) I think I can disagree without much contradiction on Afghanistan, and with not much less on Iraq.

Iraq is Kurdish, Shiite and Sunni more than it is Iraq. There isn’t a lot of nationalism and it takes a strong, ruthless dictator to hold that artificial conglomeration together.

Afghanistan is even less nationalistic in the sense Americans think of it. Their only loyalties are to their tribes, and they will kill anyone or thing which tries to take territory, or subvert their tribe’s interests for a greater good.

They didn’t even band together to fight the Soviets. The individual tribes carried on individual wars. “The Bear Trap” is a book by the Pakistani general who funneled military aid provided by the Saudis, Chinese and Americans to the various tribes.

(For an interesting read, research what happened to Soviet POWs captured by Afghanis. It’s the moral equivalent of what the French do to Ortulan Buntings.)

]]> By: TB https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/21/a-serious-question-what-is-the-us-mission-in-afghanistan/#comment-9817 TB Thu, 22 Dec 2011 01:54:04 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=6087#comment-9817 I did ask the question not that long ago: How do you think we should have done things after 9/11? I listened for a number of years to the chorus telling me we weren't carrying out the Afghanistan War "properly" because we were wasting resources in Iraq. I knew damn well that if Bush had never gone to Iraq, the Democrats would have beaten him to death on Afghanistan, but let's keep up the pretense for the sake of the argument. In what way should the "good war" have been fought, and real victory accomplished? I did ask the question not that long ago: How do you think we should have done things after 9/11?

I listened for a number of years to the chorus telling me we weren’t carrying out the Afghanistan War “properly” because we were wasting resources in Iraq.

I knew damn well that if Bush had never gone to Iraq, the Democrats would have beaten him to death on Afghanistan, but let’s keep up the pretense for the sake of the argument.

In what way should the “good war” have been fought, and real victory accomplished?

]]> By: ER https://habitablezone.com/2011/12/21/a-serious-question-what-is-the-us-mission-in-afghanistan/#comment-9812 ER Thu, 22 Dec 2011 00:40:51 +0000 http://habitablezone.com/?p=6087#comment-9812 Here's one of your reasons, Bowser, from someone who should know. Col Lawrence Wilkerson (US Army, Ret.) was chief of staff for Colin Powell during the first Bush Administration, when the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were carried out. He believed the best defense against Iran is Iraqi nationalism, their natural enemy in the area. Here is his testimony. <blockquote>"This kind of nationalism in Iraq is the best defense against Iran. Not U.S. forces on the ground, unless, of course, your plan is to go on to Syria or go on to Iran from Afghanistan and from Iraq. And, of course, that was the plan of George Bush and Dick Cheney, a plan that was put asunder by the fact that Iraq turned so badly in the years 2004, `05, `06 and `07."</blockquote> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45685498/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/ So you see, it wasn't JUST about oil. And now we know why that war was being planned even before 9/11. We knew we would need bases for future wars. Here’s one of your reasons, Bowser, from someone who should know.

Col Lawrence Wilkerson (US Army, Ret.) was chief of staff for Colin Powell during the first Bush Administration, when the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were carried out.

He believed the best defense against Iran is Iraqi nationalism, their natural enemy in the area. Here is his testimony.

“This kind of nationalism in Iraq is the best defense against Iran.
Not U.S. forces on the ground, unless, of course, your plan is to go on to
Syria or go on to Iran from Afghanistan and from Iraq. And, of course,
that was the plan of George Bush and Dick Cheney, a plan that was put
asunder by the fact that Iraq turned so badly in the years 2004, `05, `06
and `07.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45685498/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/

So you see, it wasn’t JUST about oil. And now we know why that war was being planned even before 9/11. We knew we would need bases for future wars.

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