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	<title>Comments on: Apocalypse Now.</title>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/07/apocalypse-now/#comment-10572</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=7330#comment-10572</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;ve never made a secret of my religious affiliations, but I don&#039;t post under my own name  either.

You never know, some day I may want to run for political office.  And the only way an atheist can get elected in the USA is to lie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ve never made a secret of my religious affiliations, but I don&#8217;t post under my own name  either.</p>
<p>You never know, some day I may want to run for political office.  And the only way an atheist can get elected in the USA is to lie.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/07/apocalypse-now/#comment-10570</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 17:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=7330#comment-10570</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You missed the point.&lt;/p&gt;  Obama was &quot;in bed&quot; with that preacher at least as much -- or as little -- as Republican candidates are &quot;in bed&quot; with fundamentalist evangelists.

Obama went to that church for 20 years.  There aren&#039;t any current Republican candidates who routinely attended a fire-and-brimstone Rapture-believing evangelist church.  If there were, it would have made a lot of news by now.

If you say it&#039;s all just for pragmatic political reasons, and there&#039;s no serious belief involved, then you&#039;ve really got nothing to worry about, do you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You missed the point.</p>
<p>  Obama was &#8220;in bed&#8221; with that preacher at least as much &#8212; or as little &#8212; as Republican candidates are &#8220;in bed&#8221; with fundamentalist evangelists.</p>
<p>Obama went to that church for 20 years.  There aren&#8217;t any current Republican candidates who routinely attended a fire-and-brimstone Rapture-believing evangelist church.  If there were, it would have made a lot of news by now.</p>
<p>If you say it&#8217;s all just for pragmatic political reasons, and there&#8217;s no serious belief involved, then you&#8217;ve really got nothing to worry about, do you?</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/07/apocalypse-now/#comment-10568</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 17:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=7330#comment-10568</guid>
		<description>Tom, I&#039;ve never met either you or the President personally, or know anything about either of you, but if I had to bet on it, I&#039;d say neither of you takes the doctrines of the church you attend very literally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, I&#8217;ve never met either you or the President personally, or know anything about either of you, but if I had to bet on it, I&#8217;d say neither of you takes the doctrines of the church you attend very literally.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/07/apocalypse-now/#comment-10564</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 16:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=7330#comment-10564</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thinking about the sharks in the metaphor I mentioned is normal, not &quot;selective obsession.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;  (There are also a lot of radical Islamic barracudas in the waters if you want to tie the metaphor up more tightly.)

Obsessing on the polar bears is not normal.

Your definition of &quot;in bed with&quot; is pretty broad, too.

The President you&#039;re going to vote for again spent twenty years in a fanatical radical church run by a nut case, and completely skated on it.  He was a lot closer to that ideology than I am to fundamental evangelism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thinking about the sharks in the metaphor I mentioned is normal, not &#8220;selective obsession.&#8221;</p>
<p>  (There are also a lot of radical Islamic barracudas in the waters if you want to tie the metaphor up more tightly.)</p>
<p>Obsessing on the polar bears is not normal.</p>
<p>Your definition of &#8220;in bed with&#8221; is pretty broad, too.</p>
<p>The President you&#8217;re going to vote for again spent twenty years in a fanatical radical church run by a nut case, and completely skated on it.  He was a lot closer to that ideology than I am to fundamental evangelism.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/07/apocalypse-now/#comment-10560</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 14:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=7330#comment-10560</guid>
		<description>It may be unfair, but I&#039;ve always felt many Americans to equate &quot;intelligent and refined&quot; with &quot;weak and ineffectual&quot;.  Our quickness to blame our &quot;effete intellectual elites&quot;, both in our politcal discourse and popular culture, is so deeply embedded in American thought that we don&#039;t even recognize it as a cultural characteristic.  It just manifests itself automatically as if it were self-evident truth.

It may be a relic of a time when a &quot;gentleman&quot; was an aristocrat, hence an oppressor. In the new Republic, there was no nobility, and acting or appearing that way was unnaceptable.

I know it&#039;s not just me.  I came from a more European culture that prized refinement and education, that aspired to it.  And it was always astonishing to us how Americans, who we knew were no smarter or less capable than we were, always acted as if those qualities were effeminate, or even subversive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be unfair, but I&#8217;ve always felt many Americans to equate &#8220;intelligent and refined&#8221; with &#8220;weak and ineffectual&#8221;.  Our quickness to blame our &#8220;effete intellectual elites&#8221;, both in our politcal discourse and popular culture, is so deeply embedded in American thought that we don&#8217;t even recognize it as a cultural characteristic.  It just manifests itself automatically as if it were self-evident truth.</p>
<p>It may be a relic of a time when a &#8220;gentleman&#8221; was an aristocrat, hence an oppressor. In the new Republic, there was no nobility, and acting or appearing that way was unnaceptable.</p>
<p>I know it&#8217;s not just me.  I came from a more European culture that prized refinement and education, that aspired to it.  And it was always astonishing to us how Americans, who we knew were no smarter or less capable than we were, always acted as if those qualities were effeminate, or even subversive.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/07/apocalypse-now/#comment-10559</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 13:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=7330#comment-10559</guid>
		<description>Tom, you&#039;re the one who&#039;s selectively obsessing about the Gulag and Cultural Revolution. You&#039;re crawling into bed  with religious fanatics who can&#039;t wait for Armageddon to start so they can pleasure themselves in heaven while their enemies suffer an eternity of torture.

And why? To justify your conviction that anyone who dares question you on tax policy or health insurance must be fiendishly desiring and tirelessly working for World Communism. 

Your &quot;rational thought&quot; has concluded that anyone who doesn&#039;t accept your dogma without question must be degenerate and evil, and your pathetic historical analogy  is all the proof you need. It makes your delusions sound patriotic, humane, and well-informed.

That&#039;s what really makes my flesh crawl.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, you&#8217;re the one who&#8217;s selectively obsessing about the Gulag and Cultural Revolution. You&#8217;re crawling into bed  with religious fanatics who can&#8217;t wait for Armageddon to start so they can pleasure themselves in heaven while their enemies suffer an eternity of torture.</p>
<p>And why? To justify your conviction that anyone who dares question you on tax policy or health insurance must be fiendishly desiring and tirelessly working for World Communism. </p>
<p>Your &#8220;rational thought&#8221; has concluded that anyone who doesn&#8217;t accept your dogma without question must be degenerate and evil, and your pathetic historical analogy  is all the proof you need. It makes your delusions sound patriotic, humane, and well-informed.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what really makes my flesh crawl.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/07/apocalypse-now/#comment-10554</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 04:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=7330#comment-10554</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Although you seem to forget the line of thought in a particular thread, I don&#039;t.&lt;/p&gt;

Someone who stays awake nights worrying about right wing evangelism destroying the country -- &quot;end of days,&quot; you said -- and doesn&#039;t give a shit about the widespread irrational ideas that actually &lt;em&gt;have&lt;/em&gt; destroyed nations and people, is doing a lot of intellectual editing.

Like I said, those are your beliefs, and you&#039;re welcome to them.  But &quot;rational thought&quot; has little to do with it.

Your &quot;flesh is crawling?&quot;  It&#039;s like sitting in a raft in tropical waters filled with sharks and listening to someone obsessed with being eaten by a polar bear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although you seem to forget the line of thought in a particular thread, I don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Someone who stays awake nights worrying about right wing evangelism destroying the country &#8212; &#8220;end of days,&#8221; you said &#8212; and doesn&#8217;t give a shit about the widespread irrational ideas that actually <em>have</em> destroyed nations and people, is doing a lot of intellectual editing.</p>
<p>Like I said, those are your beliefs, and you&#8217;re welcome to them.  But &#8220;rational thought&#8221; has little to do with it.</p>
<p>Your &#8220;flesh is crawling?&#8221;  It&#8217;s like sitting in a raft in tropical waters filled with sharks and listening to someone obsessed with being eaten by a polar bear.</p>
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		<title>By: FrankC</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/07/apocalypse-now/#comment-10553</link>
		<dc:creator>FrankC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 02:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=7330#comment-10553</guid>
		<description>Yes, but also perceived by many as weak and ineffectual.

I think it is possible to portray the positive without the negative, but Stevenson didn&#039;t pull it off. 

I thought Kennedy did it better than anyone I can think of, off hand, in my lifetime.

Intelligence and natural refinement are on the short list of presidential qualities but they are not at the top. Maybe they should be, I&#039;m ambivalent. It could be the crux of our problem. 

Too soon to say whether Huntsman can exude some gravitas. He did not appear to last night.

I have to agree with the pundits that Romney won big last night and critiquing the others is splitting hairs for now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but also perceived by many as weak and ineffectual.</p>
<p>I think it is possible to portray the positive without the negative, but Stevenson didn&#8217;t pull it off. </p>
<p>I thought Kennedy did it better than anyone I can think of, off hand, in my lifetime.</p>
<p>Intelligence and natural refinement are on the short list of presidential qualities but they are not at the top. Maybe they should be, I&#8217;m ambivalent. It could be the crux of our problem. </p>
<p>Too soon to say whether Huntsman can exude some gravitas. He did not appear to last night.</p>
<p>I have to agree with the pundits that Romney won big last night and critiquing the others is splitting hairs for now.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/07/apocalypse-now/#comment-10551</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 01:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=7330#comment-10551</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;The Adlai Stevenson Disease&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

I suspect that is code for &quot;he&#039;s a man not ashamed of his own intelligence and natural refinement&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Adlai Stevenson Disease&#8221;</p>
<p>I suspect that is code for &#8220;he&#8217;s a man not ashamed of his own intelligence and natural refinement&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/07/apocalypse-now/#comment-10550</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 01:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=7330#comment-10550</guid>
		<description>Boy did you walk right into that one, in spite of all the warnings I gave you and all the time you had to come up with something new.  As usual, your spirited defense once again degenerates into another lame excuse to spout your political nonsense--essentially, the latest darlings of the Rabid Right are OK because--are you ready for this?-- because Mao and Pol Pot were &lt;em&gt;worse&lt;/em&gt;.

DUHHHH!  Well, no shit, Sherlock. Is that the best you can do?  No one is defending the great villains of history here, I&#039;m just pointing out how your spiritual allies are ignorant frauds, and you are still making excuses for them, bravely covering their backs, and your backside.  Well, here&#039;s one you can use the next time you feel the need to rescue these dildoes: Attila the Hun was probably worse than the Evangelical Right.  Does that feel like a moral victory for you?

You are neither a religious fanatic, a creationist/ID advocate, or a young earth loony; in fact, although you never bring it up, I suspect you are an agnostic, or at most, vaguely deist.  But I&#039;ll cut you some slack on that because you choose to not discuss it and I can respect that.  

So the mystery remains.  Why do you make excuses and cover up for these 
Hillbilly Hitlers and their voodoo Protestantism?  If they were Democrats or Liberals, I have a feeling we would NEVER hear the end of it from you.  

You do it because your politics can&#039;t affford to alienate any of its allies, no matter how ludicrous they are; and because you know anyone capable of rational thought cannot take your ideology seriously as long as it insists on allying itself with these intellectual and spiritual pygmies. You need these troglodytes, you need all the backup you can get, just like you need the Glenn Becks and Rush Limbaughs of the Fourth Estate. 

So you pretend they&#039;re not there until they&#039;re attacked, then you feel compelled to rush to their defense by reminding us Stalin was really worse, because he was a Commie too, just like Barack Hussein.  After all, anything the statists are for must be evil.

So if it makes you feel any better, yes, I will concede you a small rhetorical defeat.  Southern Baptists are probably NOT as evil as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot or Genghis Khan. Now you can go bask in your victory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy did you walk right into that one, in spite of all the warnings I gave you and all the time you had to come up with something new.  As usual, your spirited defense once again degenerates into another lame excuse to spout your political nonsense&#8211;essentially, the latest darlings of the Rabid Right are OK because&#8211;are you ready for this?&#8211; because Mao and Pol Pot were <em>worse</em>.</p>
<p>DUHHHH!  Well, no shit, Sherlock. Is that the best you can do?  No one is defending the great villains of history here, I&#8217;m just pointing out how your spiritual allies are ignorant frauds, and you are still making excuses for them, bravely covering their backs, and your backside.  Well, here&#8217;s one you can use the next time you feel the need to rescue these dildoes: Attila the Hun was probably worse than the Evangelical Right.  Does that feel like a moral victory for you?</p>
<p>You are neither a religious fanatic, a creationist/ID advocate, or a young earth loony; in fact, although you never bring it up, I suspect you are an agnostic, or at most, vaguely deist.  But I&#8217;ll cut you some slack on that because you choose to not discuss it and I can respect that.  </p>
<p>So the mystery remains.  Why do you make excuses and cover up for these<br />
Hillbilly Hitlers and their voodoo Protestantism?  If they were Democrats or Liberals, I have a feeling we would NEVER hear the end of it from you.  </p>
<p>You do it because your politics can&#8217;t affford to alienate any of its allies, no matter how ludicrous they are; and because you know anyone capable of rational thought cannot take your ideology seriously as long as it insists on allying itself with these intellectual and spiritual pygmies. You need these troglodytes, you need all the backup you can get, just like you need the Glenn Becks and Rush Limbaughs of the Fourth Estate. </p>
<p>So you pretend they&#8217;re not there until they&#8217;re attacked, then you feel compelled to rush to their defense by reminding us Stalin was really worse, because he was a Commie too, just like Barack Hussein.  After all, anything the statists are for must be evil.</p>
<p>So if it makes you feel any better, yes, I will concede you a small rhetorical defeat.  Southern Baptists are probably NOT as evil as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot or Genghis Khan. Now you can go bask in your victory.</p>
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