Very simply, if we have a single payer system Jody will not NEED to pay $1000 a month in premiums. The costs for her health care would be paid for out of her taxes.

PERIOD, GOD FUCKING DAMN IT!

Sorry for the “child could understand this” comment, But I find this very frustrating that we can’t get people on the right to acknowledge an irrefutable fact.

FrankC even says facts don’t matter, just opinions. I say bullshit.

I’m typing on a keyboard right now. Someone else could call it a trash can but the reality is it is a keyboard. Opinions that are demonstrably false are not equal to those that accurately describe reality.

TB simply goes on about how he has no choice and there are only so many true single payer systems blah blah blah. The point he never addresses of course is that taxes are a TRADE OFF for premiums.

Yeah some people use more services than the taxes they pay and others pay more taxes and use less. Replace the word “taxes” in the last sentence with “Premiums” and the exact same thing is true.

Did you miss your caffeine window again?

As Tom so calmly pointed out…I, too will have no choice when I turn sixty five….however..

I am not talking about what is already in place with the aarpsters.

…and I am not a fucking child my tetchy twerp.. I am a fucking woman.

I guess you can say I’ve developed a very Republican, even a Conservative, attitude about this. I don’t care what happens, just keep your hands off my stack. Surely you can understand that?

Ever since I was a 18 I’ve been righteously concerned about how the world was going to hell, but nobody listened. I even planned my career around that conviction. “Resource Management”, locating, inventorying and efficiently utilizing planetary resources. Nobody cared. “You don’t know nothing about economics, you don’t have any idea what’s going on. Trust us.” I heard it from the government, I heard it from business, I heard it from my fellow citizens. We were redlining the planet right into the 21st century, a highway to hell of greed, waste, debt, lazyness, inefficiency, pointless luxury, mindless profits, and an idiotic consumer culture where everybody would live in the suburbs, buy a new car every year, send their kids to college to study Real Estate Investment Counseling, and work in an air-conditioned office shuffling paper until they retired at 50.

Even now, I am willing to work and help hold back the night. It’s all I can really do about anything, after all. I’ve got skills, education, experience. But no one is hiring, are they? What’s a resource management professional to do?

And all I get from you guys is “If you just let us do whatever we want, everything will be OK. Trust us.” I’m sorry, I just don’t believe you. I’ve heard it all before. You’re on your own.

Given your attitudes, I hope it is not provided through your spouses Union agreement.

and they usually find ample supporting information.

1. Trade off – would your SPHC trade off be better or worse than a “slight” tax increase with a rebate applicable to a private carrier premium? (theory of competition)

2. SPHC in all major nations – They work but how well do they work and what would we have to give up that the people in those nations have never had. Surely we can find a way to require health care without the government being the provider.

3. Supplemental for the wealthy and semi-wealthy – I believe that a SPHC system with supplemental will eventually result in a longer life expectancy for the privileged and a declining life expectancy for the less privileged.

4. Medicare SPHC – not so, mine is with United Health Care, and there is BCBS, Humana ETAL. Not supplemental,just a zero additional premium plan paid by my part B premium, covering medical and prescriptions with reasonable co pay and max oop.

It is much better than SPHC Medicare that requires a supplemental prescription rider.

Veterans benefits work because not everyone in the country uses them. Same for normal welfare programs, or anything designed to help a minority that needs help.

You can’t have everyone in a country living off the taxpayer.

Europe is burning down because of this fallacy, and idiots in this country are trying to drag us into the same flames. Universal welfare in any category is death, and the sooner we get the idiots pushing it out of office the better.

Our deficits right now are well over a trillion a year. No “tax the rich” proposal yet made, or combination of them, brings in enough money to cover just that deficit, never mind the rest of the ever-growing budget.

We’ve drifted from Free Medical Care for All to Free College for All, and I’m sure their list just goes on from there.

All paid for by that minority that is still chump enough to put more into the system than they take out.

Federal and state spending combined on Medicare and Medicaid, huge health care programs for the elderly and poor, runs (to my best calculation) about a trillion dollars a year.

That doesn’t count Social Security or any other Federal and state social spending in the system.

That’s $3,333 per American, or about $9,600 per filed tax return. How much did you pay in taxes last year?

So exactly how much “social contract” is enough? Seriously?

How about designing programs actually targeted to that small percentage of people (and no, it’s not 40 million) who really can’t afford alternatives instead of trying to enslave an entire population to the government? This isn’t about the needy. This is about power.

Any system that reserves this only for the children of those who can afford it is an outrage and an injustice. If everyone can’t get educated, then NO ONE should be educated, regardless of how much money they have. The only thing that should determine when, if, and how long you are educated is how you score in competitive examinations. The idea that your social position is a function of your family’s social position is offensive and undemocratic. That is not how a meritocracy should be administered.

So who pays for it? The graduates should pay for it. They get better jobs, make more money, and they will pay more in taxes. They OWE it to those coming up the line.

Now, if the rich kids who flunked the entrance exams still want to go, then give them a chance to make up for it, but make them pay full tuition. Maybe it will teach them a little responsibility and a work ethic, and educate them that whatever they achieve in this society is at least partly due to the society itself.

Just think, go to college and the kids with the nice clothes, the fancy cars, and the fraternity paddles, will be identified for what they really are: dumb rich kids. (Probably business majors).