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	<title>Comments on: How U.S. lost out on iPhone work.</title>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/21/how-u-s-lost-out-on-iphone-work/#comment-11380</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=8635#comment-11380</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Apple&#039;s side: &quot;Supplier Responsibility at Apple&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

A lot of what I&#039;ve posted on this thread was about the massive contract manufacturing company Foxconn, and its practices that I believe amount to a 21st century version of slave labor. I think it&#039;s by definition unfair competition when free workers are forced to compete with distinctly unfree workers.

Foxconn is usually described as Apple&#039;s main manufacturer, and Apple as Foxconn&#039;s biggest customer, though Apple is coy about it, and Foxconn is hidden away on its list of suppliers as &quot;Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., Ltd. (Foxconn)&quot;. I consider Apple inextricably tied and implicated in Foxconn&#039;s actions.

Apple being Apple, always obsessed with polishing its image, has a PR initiative that portrays it as the world&#039;s most responsible company when it comes to suppliers and labor practices. &lt;a href=&quot;www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Supplier Responsibility at Apple&lt;/a&gt; is the Web landing page, &lt;a href=&quot;http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf/Apple_SR_2012_Progress_Report.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Apple Supplier Responsibility&lt;/a&gt; is the PDF full report.

The lengthy report (that never mentions names, ever) claims that Apple is aggressively policing its suppliers to eliminate abuses like those at Foxconn...which appear to be continuing undiminished in any way.

I found it a bit disturbing that in a report that claims to be addressing abusive treatment of employees, the word &quot;suicide&quot; is nowhere to be found. Creepily odd, considering that Foxconn&#039;s been in the news for the last year or so with reports of a very high rate of suicide among its employees. A couple of weeks ago 300 employees in one facility threatened to commit suicide to protest horrible working conditions. Apple is either unaware of the news reports, or is sweeping them under the rug.

Read Apple&#039;s reports for yourself. You can tell that after reading them I judged Apple to be in it up to its neck, and the protestations of goodness and niceness ring more than a little hollow to my ear. But maybe there&#039;s a more charitable reading.

&lt;br/&gt;In other Apple news: 2011 (edit: fourth-quarter 2011) profits amounted to a little under one billion dollars &lt;i&gt;per week.&lt;/i&gt; Ya know, I have to wonder why Apple claims it can&#039;t afford to pay American workers, when it&#039;s awash in cash. Apple could maintain its current pricing, pay more to its workers, and still turn in a spectacular profit. Is there anything other than greed at work here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple&#8217;s side: &#8220;Supplier Responsibility at Apple&#8221;</p>
<p>A lot of what I&#8217;ve posted on this thread was about the massive contract manufacturing company Foxconn, and its practices that I believe amount to a 21st century version of slave labor. I think it&#8217;s by definition unfair competition when free workers are forced to compete with distinctly unfree workers.</p>
<p>Foxconn is usually described as Apple&#8217;s main manufacturer, and Apple as Foxconn&#8217;s biggest customer, though Apple is coy about it, and Foxconn is hidden away on its list of suppliers as &#8220;Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., Ltd. (Foxconn)&#8221;. I consider Apple inextricably tied and implicated in Foxconn&#8217;s actions.</p>
<p>Apple being Apple, always obsessed with polishing its image, has a PR initiative that portrays it as the world&#8217;s most responsible company when it comes to suppliers and labor practices. <a href="www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/" rel="nofollow">Supplier Responsibility at Apple</a> is the Web landing page, <a href="http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf/Apple_SR_2012_Progress_Report.pdf" rel="nofollow">Apple Supplier Responsibility</a> is the PDF full report.</p>
<p>The lengthy report (that never mentions names, ever) claims that Apple is aggressively policing its suppliers to eliminate abuses like those at Foxconn&#8230;which appear to be continuing undiminished in any way.</p>
<p>I found it a bit disturbing that in a report that claims to be addressing abusive treatment of employees, the word &#8220;suicide&#8221; is nowhere to be found. Creepily odd, considering that Foxconn&#8217;s been in the news for the last year or so with reports of a very high rate of suicide among its employees. A couple of weeks ago 300 employees in one facility threatened to commit suicide to protest horrible working conditions. Apple is either unaware of the news reports, or is sweeping them under the rug.</p>
<p>Read Apple&#8217;s reports for yourself. You can tell that after reading them I judged Apple to be in it up to its neck, and the protestations of goodness and niceness ring more than a little hollow to my ear. But maybe there&#8217;s a more charitable reading.</p>
<p>In other Apple news: 2011 (edit: fourth-quarter 2011) profits amounted to a little under one billion dollars <i>per week.</i> Ya know, I have to wonder why Apple claims it can&#8217;t afford to pay American workers, when it&#8217;s awash in cash. Apple could maintain its current pricing, pay more to its workers, and still turn in a spectacular profit. Is there anything other than greed at work here?</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/21/how-u-s-lost-out-on-iphone-work/#comment-11351</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=8635#comment-11351</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There are certainly worse ideas than a high-profile boycott.&lt;/p&gt;

It won&#039;t touch the equally harsh Chinese manufacturing centers that were lucky enough to avoid a NYT headline, but it would raise awareness, and that&#039;s usually a good start.

And of course, when the prices and lead times go up, people will need to remember why and not just start buying something else.

However, Apple has one advantage here: it&#039;s pretty hard to buy an Apple product from anyone else.  I think they&#039;ve already demonstrated that they can overcome a lot of price resistance over the years.  Lord knows I thought PCs would run them out of business way back when.  If they change their manufacturing a lot of customers might forgive the price and other consequences.

Apple would be a good target, and maybe the one most likely to be able to change its spots and still do all right.

And they could think a little harder about their products and human engineering.  I would have thought of the plastic-glass scratching problem while the damn thing was still on the drawing board so they wouldn&#039;t have had to panic at the last minute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are certainly worse ideas than a high-profile boycott.</p>
<p>It won&#8217;t touch the equally harsh Chinese manufacturing centers that were lucky enough to avoid a NYT headline, but it would raise awareness, and that&#8217;s usually a good start.</p>
<p>And of course, when the prices and lead times go up, people will need to remember why and not just start buying something else.</p>
<p>However, Apple has one advantage here: it&#8217;s pretty hard to buy an Apple product from anyone else.  I think they&#8217;ve already demonstrated that they can overcome a lot of price resistance over the years.  Lord knows I thought PCs would run them out of business way back when.  If they change their manufacturing a lot of customers might forgive the price and other consequences.</p>
<p>Apple would be a good target, and maybe the one most likely to be able to change its spots and still do all right.</p>
<p>And they could think a little harder about their products and human engineering.  I would have thought of the plastic-glass scratching problem while the damn thing was still on the drawing board so they wouldn&#8217;t have had to panic at the last minute.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/21/how-u-s-lost-out-on-iphone-work/#comment-11350</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=8635#comment-11350</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I wasn&#039;t suggesting that the government force manufacturers to use American laborers. I&#039;ll keep up my end of the conversation myself, thanks.&lt;/p&gt;

Nor am I suggesting a boycott of Chinese products. A boycott of &lt;i&gt;Foxconn&lt;/i&gt;, on the other hand, would directly target the unfair competition enabled by abusive labor practices. 

Foxconn&#039;s size is a mixed blessing in this regard: Huge momentum and market share makes it hard to deflect their course; but the size makes them high-profile, and more importantly, their customers are high-profile. To boycott Foxconn you only need to boycott a handful of global brands, and the boycott itself will be high-profile as a result.

Oh, yeah, and by looking to get rich on discretionary if not out-and-out luxury goods, they&#039;ve given up the protection of indispensibility. The world can do without Foxconn quite easily.

The example of Systemax is interesting in that regard. I&#039;m pretty sure Foxconn doesn&#039;t fabricate the basic components; it&#039;s an assembly company, &lt;i&gt;just like Systemax.&lt;/i&gt; And lo and behold, we find that Systemax&#039;s computers, assembled in America with the same parts manufactured overseas, are competitively priced.

Not sure why you thought that the example of Systemax would be discouraging (&quot;It ain&#039;t easy&quot;). Looks to me like they&#039;ve pulled it off.

This morning I imagined the scenario of going into an Apple store and asking one of the &quot;Geniuses&quot; where the products are manufactured. I wonder if Apple has prepped them with the company line on the subject? Either way, it would be one hell of an interesting conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t suggesting that the government force manufacturers to use American laborers. I&#8217;ll keep up my end of the conversation myself, thanks.</p>
<p>Nor am I suggesting a boycott of Chinese products. A boycott of <i>Foxconn</i>, on the other hand, would directly target the unfair competition enabled by abusive labor practices. </p>
<p>Foxconn&#8217;s size is a mixed blessing in this regard: Huge momentum and market share makes it hard to deflect their course; but the size makes them high-profile, and more importantly, their customers are high-profile. To boycott Foxconn you only need to boycott a handful of global brands, and the boycott itself will be high-profile as a result.</p>
<p>Oh, yeah, and by looking to get rich on discretionary if not out-and-out luxury goods, they&#8217;ve given up the protection of indispensibility. The world can do without Foxconn quite easily.</p>
<p>The example of Systemax is interesting in that regard. I&#8217;m pretty sure Foxconn doesn&#8217;t fabricate the basic components; it&#8217;s an assembly company, <i>just like Systemax.</i> And lo and behold, we find that Systemax&#8217;s computers, assembled in America with the same parts manufactured overseas, are competitively priced.</p>
<p>Not sure why you thought that the example of Systemax would be discouraging (&#8220;It ain&#8217;t easy&#8221;). Looks to me like they&#8217;ve pulled it off.</p>
<p>This morning I imagined the scenario of going into an Apple store and asking one of the &#8220;Geniuses&#8221; where the products are manufactured. I wonder if Apple has prepped them with the company line on the subject? Either way, it would be one hell of an interesting conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/21/how-u-s-lost-out-on-iphone-work/#comment-11349</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=8635#comment-11349</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not happy with what those people are going through, but I know why they&#039;re doing it and I also know there&#039;s not a damn thing I can do about it.

I&#039;m not crafting arguments for or against anything.  There&#039;s no forum on the planet where these arguments will make a difference.  I&#039;m pointing out why things are what they are.  Eventually, they will change, same as they have done everywhere that&#039;s gone through this phase.

I said I was open for suggestions.  Do you have any?  Do you think if our government cracked down and forced every American manufacturer to use American labor it would work?  If not, what else have you got?

You&#039;re welcome to boycott anything made in China.  It&#039;s a legitimate action, and others have done it.  It ain&#039;t easy.  Start &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.computersmadeinusa.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;

I&#039;ve done my share of shitwork.  The fresh air of field work is a bit cold at 5 AM, and then there&#039;s the mosquitoes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not happy with what those people are going through, but I know why they&#8217;re doing it and I also know there&#8217;s not a damn thing I can do about it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not crafting arguments for or against anything.  There&#8217;s no forum on the planet where these arguments will make a difference.  I&#8217;m pointing out why things are what they are.  Eventually, they will change, same as they have done everywhere that&#8217;s gone through this phase.</p>
<p>I said I was open for suggestions.  Do you have any?  Do you think if our government cracked down and forced every American manufacturer to use American labor it would work?  If not, what else have you got?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re welcome to boycott anything made in China.  It&#8217;s a legitimate action, and others have done it.  It ain&#8217;t easy.  Start <a href="http://www.computersmadeinusa.com/" rel="nofollow">here.</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve done my share of shitwork.  The fresh air of field work is a bit cold at 5 AM, and then there&#8217;s the mosquitoes.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/21/how-u-s-lost-out-on-iphone-work/#comment-11346</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=8635#comment-11346</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ohhhhh-kay&lt;/p&gt;

Right. Everything from the third paragraph forward wasn&#039;t a defense of Foxconn. Right.

You put a lot of emphasis in your nondefense on &lt;i&gt;relative&lt;/i&gt; improvement in the lives of Chinese workers. But in actual terms, the lives of those workers have been raised just high enough to live in a bunk in company barracks, eating company rations, wearing a company uniform.

As opposed to working on a farm in the country and living in a hut on a straw mat eating rice wearing the peasant uniform pajamas.

Ever worked on an electronic production line, TB? I have. After twelve hours I&#039;d prefer the fresh air and physical exercize of farm life. Twelve hours in a factory chained to a workstation under flourescant lights breathing molten lead fumes and other carcinogens under the whipful eye of an overseer &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; take a toll on your health.

Stepping back, it&#039;s pretty hilarious that I&#039;m having a debate in which a conservative is crafting arguments based on improving the lives of a bunch of foreigners. The whole reason that this situation has come about is because we &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; give a shit for anybody&#039;s welfare if there&#039;s money to be made. This is perhaps the most stark illustration of the conflict between profits and people I&#039;ve seen in my lifetime. Our capitalists are trashing American workers by brutally exploiting Chinese workers, playing us off against each other; and like any good arms merchant, profiting handsomely from the pain and suffering of both sides.

It&#039;s a moral issue, TB. Don&#039;t waste your breath touting the profitability of the arrangement. I&#039;ll never look at an Apple product the same way again: I&#039;ll see it covered in blood, and be ashamed to own one.

There&#039;s a limit to how low I&#039;ll stoop to get a lower price on my trinkets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ohhhhh-kay</p>
<p>Right. Everything from the third paragraph forward wasn&#8217;t a defense of Foxconn. Right.</p>
<p>You put a lot of emphasis in your nondefense on <i>relative</i> improvement in the lives of Chinese workers. But in actual terms, the lives of those workers have been raised just high enough to live in a bunk in company barracks, eating company rations, wearing a company uniform.</p>
<p>As opposed to working on a farm in the country and living in a hut on a straw mat eating rice wearing the peasant uniform pajamas.</p>
<p>Ever worked on an electronic production line, TB? I have. After twelve hours I&#8217;d prefer the fresh air and physical exercize of farm life. Twelve hours in a factory chained to a workstation under flourescant lights breathing molten lead fumes and other carcinogens under the whipful eye of an overseer <i>will</i> take a toll on your health.</p>
<p>Stepping back, it&#8217;s pretty hilarious that I&#8217;m having a debate in which a conservative is crafting arguments based on improving the lives of a bunch of foreigners. The whole reason that this situation has come about is because we <i>don&#8217;t</i> give a shit for anybody&#8217;s welfare if there&#8217;s money to be made. This is perhaps the most stark illustration of the conflict between profits and people I&#8217;ve seen in my lifetime. Our capitalists are trashing American workers by brutally exploiting Chinese workers, playing us off against each other; and like any good arms merchant, profiting handsomely from the pain and suffering of both sides.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a moral issue, TB. Don&#8217;t waste your breath touting the profitability of the arrangement. I&#8217;ll never look at an Apple product the same way again: I&#8217;ll see it covered in blood, and be ashamed to own one.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a limit to how low I&#8217;ll stoop to get a lower price on my trinkets.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/21/how-u-s-lost-out-on-iphone-work/#comment-11343</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=8635#comment-11343</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wickedly apropos choice of illustration.&lt;/p&gt;

Like you read my mind, Lee. I was thinking &quot;Industrial Mordor&quot;, China&#039;s stinking smokestacks spewing poisons across the globe, while an army of shackled wretches shuffle from barracks to workstation and back again twelve hours later. For $17, a cup of tea, and a biscuit. And a one-in-five hundred shot at escape via suicide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wickedly apropos choice of illustration.</p>
<p>Like you read my mind, Lee. I was thinking &#8220;Industrial Mordor&#8221;, China&#8217;s stinking smokestacks spewing poisons across the globe, while an army of shackled wretches shuffle from barracks to workstation and back again twelve hours later. For $17, a cup of tea, and a biscuit. And a one-in-five hundred shot at escape via suicide.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/21/how-u-s-lost-out-on-iphone-work/#comment-11329</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=8635#comment-11329</guid>
		<description>True...however we are global community now. Other countries, transplanted progressive workers and CEO&#039;s, international influence and media will speed up the process unlike  centuries ago where it was still very isolationist, globally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True&#8230;however we are global community now. Other countries, transplanted progressive workers and CEO&#8217;s, international influence and media will speed up the process unlike  centuries ago where it was still very isolationist, globally.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/21/how-u-s-lost-out-on-iphone-work/#comment-11319</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 04:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=8635#comment-11319</guid>
		<description>Norma Rae didn&#039;t live in a police state with thousands of years of tradition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Norma Rae didn&#8217;t live in a police state with thousands of years of tradition.</p>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/21/how-u-s-lost-out-on-iphone-work/#comment-11318</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 02:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=8635#comment-11318</guid>
		<description>Sorry. I read the whole article but came back to where I saw it first. n/t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry. I read the whole article but came back to where I saw it first. n/t</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/01/21/how-u-s-lost-out-on-iphone-work/#comment-11315</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 01:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=8635#comment-11315</guid>
		<description>China is new to their Industrial Revolution. Do you think that in a few years time there will be dissent among their ranks and a change will incur? They are where we used to be.

They will have a Norma Rae moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>China is new to their Industrial Revolution. Do you think that in a few years time there will be dissent among their ranks and a change will incur? They are where we used to be.</p>
<p>They will have a Norma Rae moment.</p>
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