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	<title>Comments on: Christo&#8217;s next art project</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/03/30/christos-next-art-project/</link>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/03/30/christos-next-art-project/#comment-13205</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 02:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=12195#comment-13205</guid>
		<description>The banks and the river bottoms are owned privately on some rivers in Oregon.  The water itself is not owned, so people can drift, cannot touch the banks or legally anchor without permission.

Where we differ is that you can consider this an &quot;art project&quot; and I simply don&#039;t see it.  I think it&#039;s more related to litter or graffiti, with the saving grace that it&#039;s removed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The banks and the river bottoms are owned privately on some rivers in Oregon.  The water itself is not owned, so people can drift, cannot touch the banks or legally anchor without permission.</p>
<p>Where we differ is that you can consider this an &#8220;art project&#8221; and I simply don&#8217;t see it.  I think it&#8217;s more related to litter or graffiti, with the saving grace that it&#8217;s removed.</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/03/30/christos-next-art-project/#comment-13199</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 00:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=12195#comment-13199</guid>
		<description>Yeah, the river is public property, but the banks..it depends. The Arkansas River is very popular for rafters and kayakers and provides a large cash flow for the companies that operate there. The banks of the river are a mix of private and public ownership. Of the later, there is the BLM and the Forest Service, plus the occassional state land (one section per township, either section 16 or 36, which can be leased for mining or grazing, at public auction, proceeds going to education, hence known as &quot;school sections.&quot;) Of the private lands, this has been rather complicated of late. The way it is now, the private land owner owns the land to the water line, and can charge anyone who sets foot on the bank with trespassing, even rafters during an emergency.

It&#039;s quite complicated. I&#039;d have to pull out my land maps of the area to see if the project is on public or private ground. Anyway, the art project will be anchored on the banks and suspended above the river, so it is the ownership of the banks that is important in this art project. Then there is the railroad which runs through the canyon, whose right-of-way controls a wide swath on the northern side. The Department of Wildlife is also intersested as this is an important area for the bighorn sheep, deer, and other critters. The department of transportation also has a say. Traffic can be a nightmare in the canyon on the best of days (it is a two lane highway with lots of curves and few passing lanes or pullouts for parking. Add several thousand new visitors and there is a big problem.

(edited)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, the river is public property, but the banks..it depends. The Arkansas River is very popular for rafters and kayakers and provides a large cash flow for the companies that operate there. The banks of the river are a mix of private and public ownership. Of the later, there is the BLM and the Forest Service, plus the occassional state land (one section per township, either section 16 or 36, which can be leased for mining or grazing, at public auction, proceeds going to education, hence known as &#8220;school sections.&#8221;) Of the private lands, this has been rather complicated of late. The way it is now, the private land owner owns the land to the water line, and can charge anyone who sets foot on the bank with trespassing, even rafters during an emergency.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite complicated. I&#8217;d have to pull out my land maps of the area to see if the project is on public or private ground. Anyway, the art project will be anchored on the banks and suspended above the river, so it is the ownership of the banks that is important in this art project. Then there is the railroad which runs through the canyon, whose right-of-way controls a wide swath on the northern side. The Department of Wildlife is also intersested as this is an important area for the bighorn sheep, deer, and other critters. The department of transportation also has a say. Traffic can be a nightmare in the canyon on the best of days (it is a two lane highway with lots of curves and few passing lanes or pullouts for parking. Add several thousand new visitors and there is a big problem.</p>
<p>(edited)</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/03/30/christos-next-art-project/#comment-13189</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 18:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=12195#comment-13189</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d guess the river is public property.  There&#039;s a reason permits are required.

It&#039;s an unnecessary desecration of the area with no purpose, done just to show it could be done.

I realize some people don&#039;t value such areas, and believe any exploitation is better than no exploitation.  That&#039;s the only way this sort of thing can happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d guess the river is public property.  There&#8217;s a reason permits are required.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an unnecessary desecration of the area with no purpose, done just to show it could be done.</p>
<p>I realize some people don&#8217;t value such areas, and believe any exploitation is better than no exploitation.  That&#8217;s the only way this sort of thing can happen.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/03/30/christos-next-art-project/#comment-13186</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 17:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=12195#comment-13186</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If we start judging art by &quot;socially-redeeming value,&quot; we get into some interesting territory.&lt;/p&gt;

Sure as heck it would put a lot of artists on the spot.

And who decides?

The people who live there issued permits for a privately-financed project.  Who else&#039;s business should it be?

Now if this were a public art project, you&#039;d have something to hang an objection on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we start judging art by &#8220;socially-redeeming value,&#8221; we get into some interesting territory.</p>
<p>Sure as heck it would put a lot of artists on the spot.</p>
<p>And who decides?</p>
<p>The people who live there issued permits for a privately-financed project.  Who else&#8217;s business should it be?</p>
<p>Now if this were a public art project, you&#8217;d have something to hang an objection on.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/03/30/christos-next-art-project/#comment-13185</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=12195#comment-13185</guid>
		<description>If it were the Bronx, or East LA, or San Francisco I wouldn&#039;t mind at all.  And I think some areas are best left as much alone as possible.  

I would see if differently if I could see any socially redeeming value, or any value at all.  And the lack of business in the area is what makes it special.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it were the Bronx, or East LA, or San Francisco I wouldn&#8217;t mind at all.  And I think some areas are best left as much alone as possible.  </p>
<p>I would see if differently if I could see any socially redeeming value, or any value at all.  And the lack of business in the area is what makes it special.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/03/30/christos-next-art-project/#comment-13181</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=12195#comment-13181</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s harmless and temporary, funded by the artist, and it&#039;s going to bring a lot of business to an area that could use it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s harmless and temporary, funded by the artist, and it&#8217;s going to bring a lot of business to an area that could use it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/03/30/christos-next-art-project/#comment-13178</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 06:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=12195#comment-13178</guid>
		<description>The river IS art.  I&#039;m not familiar with &quot;art&quot; in general, or particular, but I&#039;m something of an expert in BS, and that is BS.

Leave the river alone.  All manner of living things in it need access to sunlight.  I swear this is one of those Emperor and clothes issues, and this man is not an artist nor are his creations art.

I may have exposed my ignorance, or I may have exposed his.  But I can&#039;t imagine why anyone would give him a permit to do this to a river.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The river IS art.  I&#8217;m not familiar with &#8220;art&#8221; in general, or particular, but I&#8217;m something of an expert in BS, and that is BS.</p>
<p>Leave the river alone.  All manner of living things in it need access to sunlight.  I swear this is one of those Emperor and clothes issues, and this man is not an artist nor are his creations art.</p>
<p>I may have exposed my ignorance, or I may have exposed his.  But I can&#8217;t imagine why anyone would give him a permit to do this to a river.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/03/30/christos-next-art-project/#comment-13169</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 03:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=12195#comment-13169</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been following the progress of this art project for many, many years now for two reasons.

One, because I was just a boy when his first project in Colorado, a curtain across the Rifle Gap ended in spectacular failure from hign winds. 

Two, because I know that canyon so well. I&#039;ve driven that road more times than I can count. I was employed to map its geology many years ago. I&#039;ve been up damn near every side canyon, I know every back road, and I&#039;ve a six inch scar on the back of my thigh from a mis-step on a slick rock as a memento of my time there. 

If they build it, I&#039;ll go see it. I plan on taking one of those back roads, a road that is more a trail, up to an old quarry perched several hundred feet above the river, where the view should be amazing.

However, I think it is silly. The canyon and river don&#039;t need embellishment. On this the bighorn sheep and I are in agreement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been following the progress of this art project for many, many years now for two reasons.</p>
<p>One, because I was just a boy when his first project in Colorado, a curtain across the Rifle Gap ended in spectacular failure from hign winds. </p>
<p>Two, because I know that canyon so well. I&#8217;ve driven that road more times than I can count. I was employed to map its geology many years ago. I&#8217;ve been up damn near every side canyon, I know every back road, and I&#8217;ve a six inch scar on the back of my thigh from a mis-step on a slick rock as a memento of my time there. </p>
<p>If they build it, I&#8217;ll go see it. I plan on taking one of those back roads, a road that is more a trail, up to an old quarry perched several hundred feet above the river, where the view should be amazing.</p>
<p>However, I think it is silly. The canyon and river don&#8217;t need embellishment. On this the bighorn sheep and I are in agreement.</p>
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