<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Breathing Earth</title>
	<atom:link href="http://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2026 16:17:27 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: johannes</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/#comment-14322</link>
		<dc:creator>johannes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2012 00:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=13963#comment-14322</guid>
		<description>You may be wrong, you stated that:
“As the earth heats up from the effects of the sun, there is only one way it can cool off, by radiating its excess heat into space.”
I agree that radiation is one way the Earth loses heat, but it is not the only one.
If the atmosphere expands and the molecules (or atoms) escape the Earth’s gravitational field, then the planet will become colder.

Information from:

http://www.phys.uri.edu/~gerhard/PHY525/tln23.pdf

“During expansion, a gas does work against attractive intermolecular forces.
In the process, the average potential energy increases and, by virtue of energy
conservation, the average kinetic energy decreases. The result is a drop
in temperature.”

At the following site there is a test that you can take to see if you understand the concept.

http://www.phys.uri.edu/~gerhard/PHY525/wtex72.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may be wrong, you stated that:<br />
“As the earth heats up from the effects of the sun, there is only one way it can cool off, by radiating its excess heat into space.”<br />
I agree that radiation is one way the Earth loses heat, but it is not the only one.<br />
If the atmosphere expands and the molecules (or atoms) escape the Earth’s gravitational field, then the planet will become colder.</p>
<p>Information from:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.phys.uri.edu/~gerhard/PHY525/tln23.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.phys.uri.edu/~gerhard/PHY525/tln23.pdf</a></p>
<p>“During expansion, a gas does work against attractive intermolecular forces.<br />
In the process, the average potential energy increases and, by virtue of energy<br />
conservation, the average kinetic energy decreases. The result is a drop<br />
in temperature.”</p>
<p>At the following site there is a test that you can take to see if you understand the concept.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.phys.uri.edu/~gerhard/PHY525/wtex72.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.phys.uri.edu/~gerhard/PHY525/wtex72.pdf</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/#comment-14209</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=13963#comment-14209</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We have every reason to believe it won’t be as high as Venus.&lt;/p&gt; 

I thought that was grammatically clear.  If you weren&#039;t already programmed to be  overly-sensitive to any supposed irony, it might have rolled right over you without a notice.  

I know I was certainly not alluding to anything cute or snarky, especially since I&#039;ve always felt my prior rejection of the runaway greenhouse idea was evidence of my more moderate and reasonable approach to the science involved.

But moderate and reasonable is never enough is it?  You demand complete submission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have every reason to believe it won’t be as high as Venus.</p>
<p>I thought that was grammatically clear.  If you weren&#8217;t already programmed to be  overly-sensitive to any supposed irony, it might have rolled right over you without a notice.  </p>
<p>I know I was certainly not alluding to anything cute or snarky, especially since I&#8217;ve always felt my prior rejection of the runaway greenhouse idea was evidence of my more moderate and reasonable approach to the science involved.</p>
<p>But moderate and reasonable is never enough is it?  You demand complete submission.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/#comment-14207</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=13963#comment-14207</guid>
		<description>Go talk to your machete-waving doctor, then, if you even know who he is.  

It ain&#039;t me. I don&#039;t profit from making or influencing public policy. I just want to talk about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go talk to your machete-waving doctor, then, if you even know who he is.  </p>
<p>It ain&#8217;t me. I don&#8217;t profit from making or influencing public policy. I just want to talk about it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/#comment-14205</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=13963#comment-14205</guid>
		<description>The only thing the doctor has been waving at me is a machete.

When he puts it away, we&#039;ll talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only thing the doctor has been waving at me is a machete.</p>
<p>When he puts it away, we&#8217;ll talk.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/#comment-14204</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=13963#comment-14204</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Then why bring up Venus at all?&lt;/p&gt;

&quot;He&#039;s kind of ugly but not as ugly as a warthog.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then why bring up Venus at all?</p>
<p>&#8220;He&#8217;s kind of ugly but not as ugly as a warthog.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/#comment-14203</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=13963#comment-14203</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re not trying to avoid unnecessary surgery.  Your posts on this thread prove you can&#039;t tolerate anyone even suggesting they might be sick.

I&#039;m not a member of your power-hungry cabal, I don&#039;t work for the great Liberal conspiracy any more, haven&#039;t you heard? I never did. I just happen to have an opinion, which as a professional physical geographer I feel I am entitled to discuss with some authority. Why are you so desperate to make sure no one even brings this up?  Are you afraid of even speculation on the subject?

You don&#039;t like people talking about things you don&#039;t want to be true, do you? Things that might call attention to your self-serving ideology. You have to nip it in the bud.  Stamp out the offending thoughtcrime.  And you can&#039;t even see how that gives you away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not trying to avoid unnecessary surgery.  Your posts on this thread prove you can&#8217;t tolerate anyone even suggesting they might be sick.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a member of your power-hungry cabal, I don&#8217;t work for the great Liberal conspiracy any more, haven&#8217;t you heard? I never did. I just happen to have an opinion, which as a professional physical geographer I feel I am entitled to discuss with some authority. Why are you so desperate to make sure no one even brings this up?  Are you afraid of even speculation on the subject?</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t like people talking about things you don&#8217;t want to be true, do you? Things that might call attention to your self-serving ideology. You have to nip it in the bud.  Stamp out the offending thoughtcrime.  And you can&#8217;t even see how that gives you away.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/#comment-14202</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=13963#comment-14202</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;According to TB’s politics, we’re supposed to do nothing about it until it can be definitely proven. Unfortunately, there’s only one way we can definitely prove it, and that’s to suffer from it.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If someone is going to do major cancer surgery on me, damn straight I want definite proof.

And right now, it&#039;s a long way from definite, with way too many things not following the predictions, and way too many cases of people cooking numbers.

&quot;We can&#039;t afford to wait for the evidence to come in&quot; is a common refrain.

Unfortunately, every solution proposed for this issue by those who are obsessed with it has been the same one:  more power and loot to a massive centralized authority.  Preferably a worldwide one, with them humbly taking charge.  You should see what James Hansen is trying to sell now.

I claim the right to have at least as much skepticism about this issue as you would have if a private corporation was the one trying to shove this down our throats to gain money and power.

Money AND power.  You have an eagle&#039;s eye for lust for wealth, and one hell of a blind spot for lust for power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;According to TB’s politics, we’re supposed to do nothing about it until it can be definitely proven. Unfortunately, there’s only one way we can definitely prove it, and that’s to suffer from it.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>If someone is going to do major cancer surgery on me, damn straight I want definite proof.</p>
<p>And right now, it&#8217;s a long way from definite, with way too many things not following the predictions, and way too many cases of people cooking numbers.</p>
<p>&#8220;We can&#8217;t afford to wait for the evidence to come in&#8221; is a common refrain.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, every solution proposed for this issue by those who are obsessed with it has been the same one:  more power and loot to a massive centralized authority.  Preferably a worldwide one, with them humbly taking charge.  You should see what James Hansen is trying to sell now.</p>
<p>I claim the right to have at least as much skepticism about this issue as you would have if a private corporation was the one trying to shove this down our throats to gain money and power.</p>
<p>Money AND power.  You have an eagle&#8217;s eye for lust for wealth, and one hell of a blind spot for lust for power.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/#comment-14201</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=13963#comment-14201</guid>
		<description>You know perfectly well I have always rejected the idea of a runaway greenhouse effect on earth as untenable due to the regulatory effect of the sea and atmosphere, in many of our previous discussions here. In fact, I usually bring it up to underscore the idea that even minor excursions can have profound consequences. Don&#039;t tell me you&#039;ve already forgotten.

You can refresh your memory by reading my response to VRB below.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know perfectly well I have always rejected the idea of a runaway greenhouse effect on earth as untenable due to the regulatory effect of the sea and atmosphere, in many of our previous discussions here. In fact, I usually bring it up to underscore the idea that even minor excursions can have profound consequences. Don&#8217;t tell me you&#8217;ve already forgotten.</p>
<p>You can refresh your memory by reading my response to VRB below.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/#comment-14200</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=13963#comment-14200</guid>
		<description>&quot;We have every reason to believe it won’t be as high as Venus.&quot;

I read snark and hyperbole.

But you can explain what you really meant if you like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We have every reason to believe it won’t be as high as Venus.&#8221;</p>
<p>I read snark and hyperbole.</p>
<p>But you can explain what you really meant if you like.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/04/24/breathing-earth/#comment-14197</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=13963#comment-14197</guid>
		<description>TB knows exactly what I was saying,
but for ideological reasons, he must reflexively ridicule any mention or discussion of global warming, just like RJ Reynolds had to pooh-pooh any talk of carcinogens in tobacco smoke. It&#039;s bad for business, and we can&#039;t have that, can we?  Someone might lose his freedom to profitably pollute with impunity.

The earth will radiate any excess heat off into space, but it will do so at a higher temperature, not necessarily hundreds of degrees, but even a few degrees will have consequences for our weather and climate.  I have repeatedly said here a runaway greenhouse effect was highly unlikely on earth because after billions of years of asteroid strikes and volcanic episodes the earth has never had one. The earth is self-regulating, but not perfectly so.  We do have Coal and Ice Ages. But of course, TB has accused me of something I&#039;ve never claimed, and that he knows I&#039;ve never claimed, so he 
can cleverly produce a pithy counter-example.  

No one knows why Venus had a greenhouse excursion, which is why astronomers are so baffled by it. It may have been Venus&#039; chemistry, or its distance from the sun, or even its rotational mechanics, did not allow an earth-type feedback weather moderating system to evolve there. But no one knows for sure.

But even a slight excursion in temperature over a short time span will alter ocean currents, wind patterns, precipitation, little things which may wreak havoc with our agriculture, settlement patterns, and civilization.  According to TB&#039;s politics, we&#039;re supposed to do nothing about it until it can be definitely proven.  Unfortunately, there&#039;s only one way we can definitely prove it, and that&#039;s to suffer from it.

As the earth heats up from the effects of the sun, there is only one way it can cool off, by radiating its excess heat into space. It&#039;s the same physics that causes any heated object to give off heat until it stabilizes at some higher temperature.  The power radiated, P = kT**4,  so equilibrium is quickly reached. But greenhouse gases can potentially alter the proportionality constant k so equilibrium may be reached at a slightly higher T. But even a rise of an average of a few degrees C will probably cause weather changes, and maybe corn won&#039;t grow in the Iowan Desert any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TB knows exactly what I was saying,<br />
but for ideological reasons, he must reflexively ridicule any mention or discussion of global warming, just like RJ Reynolds had to pooh-pooh any talk of carcinogens in tobacco smoke. It&#8217;s bad for business, and we can&#8217;t have that, can we?  Someone might lose his freedom to profitably pollute with impunity.</p>
<p>The earth will radiate any excess heat off into space, but it will do so at a higher temperature, not necessarily hundreds of degrees, but even a few degrees will have consequences for our weather and climate.  I have repeatedly said here a runaway greenhouse effect was highly unlikely on earth because after billions of years of asteroid strikes and volcanic episodes the earth has never had one. The earth is self-regulating, but not perfectly so.  We do have Coal and Ice Ages. But of course, TB has accused me of something I&#8217;ve never claimed, and that he knows I&#8217;ve never claimed, so he<br />
can cleverly produce a pithy counter-example.  </p>
<p>No one knows why Venus had a greenhouse excursion, which is why astronomers are so baffled by it. It may have been Venus&#8217; chemistry, or its distance from the sun, or even its rotational mechanics, did not allow an earth-type feedback weather moderating system to evolve there. But no one knows for sure.</p>
<p>But even a slight excursion in temperature over a short time span will alter ocean currents, wind patterns, precipitation, little things which may wreak havoc with our agriculture, settlement patterns, and civilization.  According to TB&#8217;s politics, we&#8217;re supposed to do nothing about it until it can be definitely proven.  Unfortunately, there&#8217;s only one way we can definitely prove it, and that&#8217;s to suffer from it.</p>
<p>As the earth heats up from the effects of the sun, there is only one way it can cool off, by radiating its excess heat into space. It&#8217;s the same physics that causes any heated object to give off heat until it stabilizes at some higher temperature.  The power radiated, P = kT**4,  so equilibrium is quickly reached. But greenhouse gases can potentially alter the proportionality constant k so equilibrium may be reached at a slightly higher T. But even a rise of an average of a few degrees C will probably cause weather changes, and maybe corn won&#8217;t grow in the Iowan Desert any more.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
