<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Brave political move on marriage equality</title>
	<atom:link href="http://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2026 22:41:18 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/#comment-14780</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 21:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14697#comment-14780</guid>
		<description>...will pay anything to not be that way.  In other words, they are an ideal market.  Selling to that market will be profitable, and for those who can&#039;t afford to pay, that&#039;s just too bad. Fully and efficiently exploiting any market requires someone does without. Enough will be able to pay to make it worthwhile to the seller.

Social Security, health benefits, state supported education, any form of social welfare, insurance of any kind deprive the private sector of a source of revenue, which is why it is so bitterly opposed.  But of course, there is more to it than that.

Those who pay for these services must earn money to do so, which makes being able to work a matter of life and death for them. You can never have enough when any little thing can bankrupt you. If you don&#039;t pay, you die.  It&#039;s that simple.  This makes for a very docile and cheap work force.

But it also stands to reason we can&#039;t all live off the largesse of the state, and people need to work for what they receive, and their benefits should reflect what they contribute to the society. Not only that, private enterprise IS more efficient than the state at providing most goods and services.

The obvious solution is to do what we&#039;ve always done, select a middle course between laissez-faire capitalism and doctrinaire socialism, picking the best of both to construct a humane and prosperous society. 

But there is bitter opposition to that, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;will pay anything to not be that way.  In other words, they are an ideal market.  Selling to that market will be profitable, and for those who can&#8217;t afford to pay, that&#8217;s just too bad. Fully and efficiently exploiting any market requires someone does without. Enough will be able to pay to make it worthwhile to the seller.</p>
<p>Social Security, health benefits, state supported education, any form of social welfare, insurance of any kind deprive the private sector of a source of revenue, which is why it is so bitterly opposed.  But of course, there is more to it than that.</p>
<p>Those who pay for these services must earn money to do so, which makes being able to work a matter of life and death for them. You can never have enough when any little thing can bankrupt you. If you don&#8217;t pay, you die.  It&#8217;s that simple.  This makes for a very docile and cheap work force.</p>
<p>But it also stands to reason we can&#8217;t all live off the largesse of the state, and people need to work for what they receive, and their benefits should reflect what they contribute to the society. Not only that, private enterprise IS more efficient than the state at providing most goods and services.</p>
<p>The obvious solution is to do what we&#8217;ve always done, select a middle course between laissez-faire capitalism and doctrinaire socialism, picking the best of both to construct a humane and prosperous society. </p>
<p>But there is bitter opposition to that, too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/#comment-14778</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 19:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14697#comment-14778</guid>
		<description>All four taken together provide balance, so I guess that makes me a moderate. I think you can safely say that people who choose just two to promote and protect are extremists, and the direction is only a detail based on which two they pick. What matters is the balance.

It&#039;s just a balance of vectors: &quot;freedom to&quot; balanced against &quot;freedom from&quot;.

Retirement can only be hell if you don&#039;t have the freedom from want and fear. As people get physically frail and less able to provide for themselves they naturally become afraid; that&#039;s called &quot;being realistic&quot;. The stereotype of the fearful senior citizen is based on reality, and FDR intended to mitigate their fear chief among the people he wanted to help. There&#039;s a  reason Social Security is considered the centerpiece of the New Deal.

Republicans would smash Social Security and turn everyone&#039;s retirement over to Wall St to manage just as it&#039;s managed everything else so well these last few decades. Hard to believe sometimes that I share a planet and DNA with these people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All four taken together provide balance, so I guess that makes me a moderate. I think you can safely say that people who choose just two to promote and protect are extremists, and the direction is only a detail based on which two they pick. What matters is the balance.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just a balance of vectors: &#8220;freedom to&#8221; balanced against &#8220;freedom from&#8221;.</p>
<p>Retirement can only be hell if you don&#8217;t have the freedom from want and fear. As people get physically frail and less able to provide for themselves they naturally become afraid; that&#8217;s called &#8220;being realistic&#8221;. The stereotype of the fearful senior citizen is based on reality, and FDR intended to mitigate their fear chief among the people he wanted to help. There&#8217;s a  reason Social Security is considered the centerpiece of the New Deal.</p>
<p>Republicans would smash Social Security and turn everyone&#8217;s retirement over to Wall St to manage just as it&#8217;s managed everything else so well these last few decades. Hard to believe sometimes that I share a planet and DNA with these people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/#comment-14777</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 18:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14697#comment-14777</guid>
		<description>&#039;Freedom from want&#039; means you do not fear your income is threatened by another, and &#039;freedom from fear&#039; means you are immune to the bluster and threat of authority.  Those two freedoms mean you can&#039;t be bullied or intimidated by those who have power over you by limiting your livelihood.  

As someone who is approaching my third year of retirement, I become more cognizant of that every day that passes. I can see why Liberals and Conservatives disagree violently on those two. Those who are afraid, or impoverished, especially if they are so because of the will of another, can never be free.

They can&#039;t touch me so I&#039;m no longer afraid of them.  I think Conservatives sense that, even those who have no power or authority themselves, but have convinced themselves that they are somehow entitled to it. And it really pisses them off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Freedom from want&#8217; means you do not fear your income is threatened by another, and &#8216;freedom from fear&#8217; means you are immune to the bluster and threat of authority.  Those two freedoms mean you can&#8217;t be bullied or intimidated by those who have power over you by limiting your livelihood.  </p>
<p>As someone who is approaching my third year of retirement, I become more cognizant of that every day that passes. I can see why Liberals and Conservatives disagree violently on those two. Those who are afraid, or impoverished, especially if they are so because of the will of another, can never be free.</p>
<p>They can&#8217;t touch me so I&#8217;m no longer afraid of them.  I think Conservatives sense that, even those who have no power or authority themselves, but have convinced themselves that they are somehow entitled to it. And it really pisses them off.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/#comment-14776</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 17:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14697#comment-14776</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s long been maintained that left and right mean different things when we use the terms &quot;freedom&quot; and &quot;liberty&quot;.

I think Republicans more than tolerate bigotry, they see its expression and implementation as a matter of individual freedom. Conservatives to this day (e.g. Rand Paul) argue that anti-discrimination laws are an infringement on individual rights, and frequently put it in terms of small business owners such as restaurant operators having the right to refuse service to anyone based on personal prejudice. Another common illustration is the right of a landlord to refuse to rent based on prejudice. The right to be a bigot trumps the right to eat and have shelter in the minds of conservatives. (And note the priorities: Bigotry trumps money, too. Even the virtues of hard work and self-sufficiency won&#039;t save you if you have the wrong skin color or sexual orientation.)

Being a liberal doesn&#039;t mean that I undervalue individual freedoms. It means that take a broader view of freedom, much like FDR&#039;s &quot;Four Freedoms&quot;:

    Freedom of speech and expression
    Freedom of worship
    Freedom from want
    Freedom from fear

Conservatives and liberals agree on the first two, but disagree violently on the second two.

And that, kiddies, is why America is circling the drain early in the 21st Century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s long been maintained that left and right mean different things when we use the terms &#8220;freedom&#8221; and &#8220;liberty&#8221;.</p>
<p>I think Republicans more than tolerate bigotry, they see its expression and implementation as a matter of individual freedom. Conservatives to this day (e.g. Rand Paul) argue that anti-discrimination laws are an infringement on individual rights, and frequently put it in terms of small business owners such as restaurant operators having the right to refuse service to anyone based on personal prejudice. Another common illustration is the right of a landlord to refuse to rent based on prejudice. The right to be a bigot trumps the right to eat and have shelter in the minds of conservatives. (And note the priorities: Bigotry trumps money, too. Even the virtues of hard work and self-sufficiency won&#8217;t save you if you have the wrong skin color or sexual orientation.)</p>
<p>Being a liberal doesn&#8217;t mean that I undervalue individual freedoms. It means that take a broader view of freedom, much like FDR&#8217;s &#8220;Four Freedoms&#8221;:</p>
<p>    Freedom of speech and expression<br />
    Freedom of worship<br />
    Freedom from want<br />
    Freedom from fear</p>
<p>Conservatives and liberals agree on the first two, but disagree violently on the second two.</p>
<p>And that, kiddies, is why America is circling the drain early in the 21st Century.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/#comment-14775</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 17:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14697#comment-14775</guid>
		<description>There will likely be some fundraising that will benefit Obama because of his announcement.  Do you think Karl Rove, the Koch bros and the rest of the gop superpac assholes out there won&#039;t make this a HUGE fundraising issue on the right as well?

Do you think the Obama campaign isn&#039;t smart enough to have figured that one out ahead of time?  It&#039;s clear Obama did the right thing despite a significant political risk, especially in swing states.  

Like I mentioned before, my own views on this have evolved over the last 5 years.  Aside from the politics, where do you stand on marriage equality?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There will likely be some fundraising that will benefit Obama because of his announcement.  Do you think Karl Rove, the Koch bros and the rest of the gop superpac assholes out there won&#8217;t make this a HUGE fundraising issue on the right as well?</p>
<p>Do you think the Obama campaign isn&#8217;t smart enough to have figured that one out ahead of time?  It&#8217;s clear Obama did the right thing despite a significant political risk, especially in swing states.  </p>
<p>Like I mentioned before, my own views on this have evolved over the last 5 years.  Aside from the politics, where do you stand on marriage equality?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/#comment-14774</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 17:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14697#comment-14774</guid>
		<description>But most bigots are Republicans.  And most Republicans are prepared to tolerate a little bigotry, and even pursue it, if it means their peculiar concept of freedom and liberty is advanced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But most bigots are Republicans.  And most Republicans are prepared to tolerate a little bigotry, and even pursue it, if it means their peculiar concept of freedom and liberty is advanced.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/#comment-14773</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 16:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14697#comment-14773</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Buck...&lt;/p&gt;

It was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/top-obama-donors-witholding-money-over-executive-order-punt/2012/05/07/gIQAPKsl8T_blog.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;about the money.&lt;/a&gt;

He had to lie about his real beliefs to win statewide Illinois and national elections (this is just one of an extensive list), but his progressive donors were telling him his time had run out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buck&#8230;</p>
<p>It was <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/top-obama-donors-witholding-money-over-executive-order-punt/2012/05/07/gIQAPKsl8T_blog.html" rel="nofollow">about the money.</a></p>
<p>He had to lie about his real beliefs to win statewide Illinois and national elections (this is just one of an extensive list), but his progressive donors were telling him his time had run out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/#comment-14772</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 16:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14697#comment-14772</guid>
		<description>It is clear this episode is just another one of a long line where Romney has had the opportunity to stand up to the wingnuts and wackofundos without sacrificing genuine Conservative principles.  And he has chosen the wrong path yet again, out of fear and cowardice.

This will lose him votes from moderate Republicans and disaffected Democrats, not to mention the all-important Independents that will be the deciders in this election. And of course, the extreme Right is never satisfied. Nothing is ever enough for them. They demand complete, total, groveling sycophancy.  

I like the MLK quote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is clear this episode is just another one of a long line where Romney has had the opportunity to stand up to the wingnuts and wackofundos without sacrificing genuine Conservative principles.  And he has chosen the wrong path yet again, out of fear and cowardice.</p>
<p>This will lose him votes from moderate Republicans and disaffected Democrats, not to mention the all-important Independents that will be the deciders in this election. And of course, the extreme Right is never satisfied. Nothing is ever enough for them. They demand complete, total, groveling sycophancy.  </p>
<p>I like the MLK quote.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/#comment-14771</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 16:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14697#comment-14771</guid>
		<description>The gay Romney spokesman issue created an opportunity to move this announcement up for maximum effect, but that doesn&#039;t change the real political risks.  Or the fact that this was a morally just stand against institutionalized bigotry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gay Romney spokesman issue created an opportunity to move this announcement up for maximum effect, but that doesn&#8217;t change the real political risks.  Or the fact that this was a morally just stand against institutionalized bigotry.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/09/brave-political-move-on-marriage-equality/#comment-14770</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 16:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14697#comment-14770</guid>
		<description>I was struck by your forthright calling of a shovel a shovel, ER. 

The right is intent on writing bigory into the fundamental laws of the the US through Constitutional amendments at the Federal and state level. I understand 30 states now have bigotry amendments to their Constitutions forbidding gay marriage. Wonder how they&#039;ll stand up the 14th Amendment if the Feds ever grow a pair and actually enforce it?

On the main subject, I can&#039;t say I&#039;m at all impressed by political expediency. Obama signalled his passivity on the subject and the right was emboldened. Now in an election year he experiences punctuated evolution and crawls on to dry land. BFD.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was struck by your forthright calling of a shovel a shovel, ER. </p>
<p>The right is intent on writing bigory into the fundamental laws of the the US through Constitutional amendments at the Federal and state level. I understand 30 states now have bigotry amendments to their Constitutions forbidding gay marriage. Wonder how they&#8217;ll stand up the 14th Amendment if the Feds ever grow a pair and actually enforce it?</p>
<p>On the main subject, I can&#8217;t say I&#8217;m at all impressed by political expediency. Obama signalled his passivity on the subject and the right was emboldened. Now in an election year he experiences punctuated evolution and crawls on to dry land. BFD.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
