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	<title>Comments on: Meanwhile, out in the real world</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/11/meanwhile-out-in-the-real-world/</link>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/11/meanwhile-out-in-the-real-world/#comment-14907</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2012 19:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14727#comment-14907</guid>
		<description>It does explain a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does explain a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/11/meanwhile-out-in-the-real-world/#comment-14893</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 23:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14727#comment-14893</guid>
		<description>Look at a map.  That will explain a lot. n/t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look at a map.  That will explain a lot. n/t</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/11/meanwhile-out-in-the-real-world/#comment-14868</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 15:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14727#comment-14868</guid>
		<description>And I&#039;m no expert.

But I sympathize with Israel, it is a Western Liberal Democracy with a talented and capable people, and I have little trust or liking for her enemies. Consequently, I am willing to offer Israel my support, perhaps even take risks for her safety, by offering my aid, and even military guarantees.

But I will not let Israel abuse this trust by letting her take advantage of me, and placing me in situations that endanger my national security in order to further her own interests, (even if they are legitimate security interests) at least not without consulting me fully first. That is not too much to ask of an ally and a friend. And under no circumstances should she be allowed to manipulate the American political scene in order to promote her own policies, no matter how essential they may seem to her.

As for your specific questions, I will answer them in the order you asked them.

1) Iran (and most of the Muslim world) needs an external enemy to justify her own domestic failures and to distract her population from the consequences of those failures. An attack on Israel could be an attempt to avoid a crisis at home, or the result of some contrived political situation getting out of control. Those things tend to happen unexpectedly when you start rattling sabers.

2) Yes, there is reason for fear in Israel. See 1) above.

3) Israel has every right to defend herself if attacked.  She may even be entitled to assistance from us, IF it is in our interest.  But she should never use our pledge of support as a cover for her own ambitions and interests in the region.  In other words, if she picks a fight, she shouldn&#039;t expect us to come bail her out.

I am a realist, I realize in the modern technological world where minutes can give an advantage, sometimes a pre-emptive strike, or an attack on a peaceful foreign country may be a justifiable defense against a contemplated aggression.

Even the threat of such an attack can be a deterrent to a potential agressor who is technically non-belligerent.  If you feel it is justified, as Israel did in 1967, then you must be prepared to go it alone and accept the consequences. But it is a very risky business.

But as long as Israel feels it has a claim to our assistance, up to and including war, then we have a vote as to how she decides to respond to an external threat short of actual attack.  Again, I don&#039;t think that is too much to ask.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I&#8217;m no expert.</p>
<p>But I sympathize with Israel, it is a Western Liberal Democracy with a talented and capable people, and I have little trust or liking for her enemies. Consequently, I am willing to offer Israel my support, perhaps even take risks for her safety, by offering my aid, and even military guarantees.</p>
<p>But I will not let Israel abuse this trust by letting her take advantage of me, and placing me in situations that endanger my national security in order to further her own interests, (even if they are legitimate security interests) at least not without consulting me fully first. That is not too much to ask of an ally and a friend. And under no circumstances should she be allowed to manipulate the American political scene in order to promote her own policies, no matter how essential they may seem to her.</p>
<p>As for your specific questions, I will answer them in the order you asked them.</p>
<p>1) Iran (and most of the Muslim world) needs an external enemy to justify her own domestic failures and to distract her population from the consequences of those failures. An attack on Israel could be an attempt to avoid a crisis at home, or the result of some contrived political situation getting out of control. Those things tend to happen unexpectedly when you start rattling sabers.</p>
<p>2) Yes, there is reason for fear in Israel. See 1) above.</p>
<p>3) Israel has every right to defend herself if attacked.  She may even be entitled to assistance from us, IF it is in our interest.  But she should never use our pledge of support as a cover for her own ambitions and interests in the region.  In other words, if she picks a fight, she shouldn&#8217;t expect us to come bail her out.</p>
<p>I am a realist, I realize in the modern technological world where minutes can give an advantage, sometimes a pre-emptive strike, or an attack on a peaceful foreign country may be a justifiable defense against a contemplated aggression.</p>
<p>Even the threat of such an attack can be a deterrent to a potential agressor who is technically non-belligerent.  If you feel it is justified, as Israel did in 1967, then you must be prepared to go it alone and accept the consequences. But it is a very risky business.</p>
<p>But as long as Israel feels it has a claim to our assistance, up to and including war, then we have a vote as to how she decides to respond to an external threat short of actual attack.  Again, I don&#8217;t think that is too much to ask.</p>
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		<title>By: johannes</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/11/meanwhile-out-in-the-real-world/#comment-14867</link>
		<dc:creator>johannes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 14:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14727#comment-14867</guid>
		<description>I have not studied that situation in depth, but what I understand is that Israel is afraid of a military attack from Iran.  I’d like to get answers to some questions from someone that knows the situation in depth.

Why would Iran attack Israel?
Is there a reason for fear in Israel?
Should Israel defend itself if it is attacked?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not studied that situation in depth, but what I understand is that Israel is afraid of a military attack from Iran.  I’d like to get answers to some questions from someone that knows the situation in depth.</p>
<p>Why would Iran attack Israel?<br />
Is there a reason for fear in Israel?<br />
Should Israel defend itself if it is attacked?</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/11/meanwhile-out-in-the-real-world/#comment-14865</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 13:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14727#comment-14865</guid>
		<description>It appears that Netanyahu is doing his best to influence the outcome of the US elections in order to further his own geopolitical interests in the region.  That&#039;s right, &quot;his interests&quot;, support for another major middle east war is far from unanimous among the Israeli electorate.

The American Right&#039;s fawning insistence on giving the Israeli war party everything it wants, and allowing them to meddle in our politics, is testimony to the testicular grip the evangelicals have on the Republican party. I cannot imagine why else the Conservatives would insist on these lunatic policies if it weren&#039;t for the way the Messianic fantasies and apocalyptic visions of these drooling cults dovetail so nicely with reactionary Republican domestic economic policy.  These people will sell out their country to a foreign power just for a break in their taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears that Netanyahu is doing his best to influence the outcome of the US elections in order to further his own geopolitical interests in the region.  That&#8217;s right, &#8220;his interests&#8221;, support for another major middle east war is far from unanimous among the Israeli electorate.</p>
<p>The American Right&#8217;s fawning insistence on giving the Israeli war party everything it wants, and allowing them to meddle in our politics, is testimony to the testicular grip the evangelicals have on the Republican party. I cannot imagine why else the Conservatives would insist on these lunatic policies if it weren&#8217;t for the way the Messianic fantasies and apocalyptic visions of these drooling cults dovetail so nicely with reactionary Republican domestic economic policy.  These people will sell out their country to a foreign power just for a break in their taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/11/meanwhile-out-in-the-real-world/#comment-14852</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 04:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14727#comment-14852</guid>
		<description>As far as that goes, Israel has attacked more countries than North Korea, Iran and Syria all put together.  A one-country axis of evil.  With nukes.

Israel simply wants to force the US into more wars, as if we could afford it.

Ridiculous.  All Israel learned from WWII is how to persecute.  Sad.

At least the Rest Of the World knows that.  The US has been propagandized for so long there are still people talking about Israel being &quot;driven into the sea&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as that goes, Israel has attacked more countries than North Korea, Iran and Syria all put together.  A one-country axis of evil.  With nukes.</p>
<p>Israel simply wants to force the US into more wars, as if we could afford it.</p>
<p>Ridiculous.  All Israel learned from WWII is how to persecute.  Sad.</p>
<p>At least the Rest Of the World knows that.  The US has been propagandized for so long there are still people talking about Israel being &#8220;driven into the sea&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/05/11/meanwhile-out-in-the-real-world/#comment-14846</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 04:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=14727#comment-14846</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And in Israel:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationalreview.com/blogs/print/299659&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The storm gathers.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And in Israel:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/blogs/print/299659" rel="nofollow">The storm gathers.</a></p>
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