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	<title>Comments on: Harry Reid&#8217;s brilliant move</title>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/08/04/harry-reids-brilliant-move/#comment-17109</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 20:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=19455#comment-17109</guid>
		<description>Just another theory till the details are filled in.  I can see why you would claim it was THE EXPLAINATION, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just another theory till the details are filled in.  I can see why you would claim it was THE EXPLAINATION, though.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/08/04/harry-reids-brilliant-move/#comment-17108</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 20:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=19455#comment-17108</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Did &lt;em&gt;anybody&lt;/em&gt; read the damn article?&lt;/p&gt;

Romney helped found his company, just like Gates started Microsoft and Jobs started Apple.

A percentage of the stock of a new company with less than a dozen employees and almost no income is worth considerably less than when it becomes a multi-million dollar public company.  Companies back in the day often handed out stock instead of decent wages. I&#039;ve dealt with this in my own business life.  I&#039;ve paid taxes on founder&#039;s stock.  It&#039;s income.

Ronald Wayne, another founder at Apple, sold ten percent of that company for $800.  It would be worth $22 billion today.

Is any of this sinking in?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did <em>anybody</em> read the damn article?</p>
<p>Romney helped found his company, just like Gates started Microsoft and Jobs started Apple.</p>
<p>A percentage of the stock of a new company with less than a dozen employees and almost no income is worth considerably less than when it becomes a multi-million dollar public company.  Companies back in the day often handed out stock instead of decent wages. I&#8217;ve dealt with this in my own business life.  I&#8217;ve paid taxes on founder&#8217;s stock.  It&#8217;s income.</p>
<p>Ronald Wayne, another founder at Apple, sold ten percent of that company for $800.  It would be worth $22 billion today.</p>
<p>Is any of this sinking in?</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/08/04/harry-reids-brilliant-move/#comment-17104</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 19:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=19455#comment-17104</guid>
		<description>
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXdKlpBOvs0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;and other forms of commodities trading&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXdKlpBOvs0" rel="nofollow">and other forms of commodities trading</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/08/04/harry-reids-brilliant-move/#comment-17102</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=19455#comment-17102</guid>
		<description>You guys took your usual tortuous path to a simple question: Did Romney build an IRA to ridiculous levels by putting assets into it with a fraudulently low valuation?

If Mitt obeyed the law just like the rest of us, why did &lt;i&gt;his&lt;/i&gt; IRA grow by a factor of 10,000%? Why doesn&#039;t everyone who invests $60,000 over ten years end up with close to $100 million?

There simply is no way to spin this that doesn&#039;t look bad for Mitt.

Or for the wealthy in general. It reinforces the belief that once you pass a certain threshold of wealth, you join the club and and gain a Midas touch, and from then on everything you touch automatically turns to gold, regardless of effort or merit. That the rich get richer simply because they&#039;re already rich.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys took your usual tortuous path to a simple question: Did Romney build an IRA to ridiculous levels by putting assets into it with a fraudulently low valuation?</p>
<p>If Mitt obeyed the law just like the rest of us, why did <i>his</i> IRA grow by a factor of 10,000%? Why doesn&#8217;t everyone who invests $60,000 over ten years end up with close to $100 million?</p>
<p>There simply is no way to spin this that doesn&#8217;t look bad for Mitt.</p>
<p>Or for the wealthy in general. It reinforces the belief that once you pass a certain threshold of wealth, you join the club and and gain a Midas touch, and from then on everything you touch automatically turns to gold, regardless of effort or merit. That the rich get richer simply because they&#8217;re already rich.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/08/04/harry-reids-brilliant-move/#comment-17094</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=19455#comment-17094</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m assuming the question is contained in the phrase:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;I’m dying to know how he got all that cash into it when you are only supposed to be able to add $6000.00/year.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The answer given in the article was that it is likely he invested stock at a very low price and it appreciated.

It&#039;s not uncommon--I&#039;ve done it myself (with a Roth), except the company founder&#039;s stock I invested never appreciated.  That&#039;s part of the risk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m assuming the question is contained in the phrase:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;I’m dying to know how he got all that cash into it when you are only supposed to be able to add $6000.00/year.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>The answer given in the article was that it is likely he invested stock at a very low price and it appreciated.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not uncommon&#8211;I&#8217;ve done it myself (with a Roth), except the company founder&#8217;s stock I invested never appreciated.  That&#8217;s part of the risk.</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/08/04/harry-reids-brilliant-move/#comment-17089</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=19455#comment-17089</guid>
		<description>And that it may not have been an optimum strategy?  I stipulate to both of your statements, but I don&#039;t see how they bear on my question at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And that it may not have been an optimum strategy?  I stipulate to both of your statements, but I don&#8217;t see how they bear on my question at all.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/08/04/harry-reids-brilliant-move/#comment-17064</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 01:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=19455#comment-17064</guid>
		<description>Your question was, paraphrasing, &quot;how did that much money get into the IRA.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your question was, paraphrasing, &#8220;how did that much money get into the IRA.&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/08/04/harry-reids-brilliant-move/#comment-17061</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 00:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=19455#comment-17061</guid>
		<description>No, but I did. n/t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, but I did. n/t</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/08/04/harry-reids-brilliant-move/#comment-17054</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2012 20:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=19455#comment-17054</guid>
		<description>You did not answer my question. n/t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You did not answer my question. n/t</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/08/04/harry-reids-brilliant-move/#comment-17038</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2012 14:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=19455#comment-17038</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204468004577168972507188592.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This article&lt;/a&gt; is not as lyrical as ER&#039;s explanation, but it might be more informative.

IRA income is not &quot;hidden.&quot;  The IRS knows quite well where everyone&#039;s IRA money is.  Taxes on IRAs are deferred, not eliminated.

I don&#039;t know why Romney went this route.  In a few years, the law says he will have to start withdrawing a given percentage of the IRA money every year, and pay taxes on it at the ordinary (not capital gains) rate.  I figure from online calculators that the annual tax hit will be something like $1.3 million, every year for almost 30 years.

A Roth IRA might have been a better deal.  As I understand it (I&#039;m no tax expert) you pay normal taxes on what you put into it, but any increase in value while it&#039;s in the account is not taxed if you wait until retirement to take it out.  A good deal for things like stock and real estate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204468004577168972507188592.html" rel="nofollow">This article</a> is not as lyrical as ER&#8217;s explanation, but it might be more informative.</p>
<p>IRA income is not &#8220;hidden.&#8221;  The IRS knows quite well where everyone&#8217;s IRA money is.  Taxes on IRAs are deferred, not eliminated.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know why Romney went this route.  In a few years, the law says he will have to start withdrawing a given percentage of the IRA money every year, and pay taxes on it at the ordinary (not capital gains) rate.  I figure from online calculators that the annual tax hit will be something like $1.3 million, every year for almost 30 years.</p>
<p>A Roth IRA might have been a better deal.  As I understand it (I&#8217;m no tax expert) you pay normal taxes on what you put into it, but any increase in value while it&#8217;s in the account is not taxed if you wait until retirement to take it out.  A good deal for things like stock and real estate.</p>
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