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	<title>Comments on: Ryan nailed for a bold faced lie on Face The Nation</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/</link>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/#comment-18157</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 22:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=21639#comment-18157</guid>
		<description>Do you have any substantive response to the fact that the Republican candidate for Vice President will tell such blatant untruths on national television, again?

Such blatant dishonesty is usually a turn-off for most people.  Many of us taught our children that dishonesty was absolutely not acceptable, the mark of poor character and created a lack of trust in us by other people.

We taught them that character was more important than money, fame, power, sex, everything.  At least my children were taught that and they could fairly judge other people&#039;s character if they were dishonest.  Might like them, might enjoy their company, but couldn&#039;t trust or respect them.

And here you are, by your silence, condoning both these candidates who have demonstrated they don&#039;t deserve trust or respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have any substantive response to the fact that the Republican candidate for Vice President will tell such blatant untruths on national television, again?</p>
<p>Such blatant dishonesty is usually a turn-off for most people.  Many of us taught our children that dishonesty was absolutely not acceptable, the mark of poor character and created a lack of trust in us by other people.</p>
<p>We taught them that character was more important than money, fame, power, sex, everything.  At least my children were taught that and they could fairly judge other people&#8217;s character if they were dishonest.  Might like them, might enjoy their company, but couldn&#8217;t trust or respect them.</p>
<p>And here you are, by your silence, condoning both these candidates who have demonstrated they don&#8217;t deserve trust or respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/#comment-18146</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=21639#comment-18146</guid>
		<description>ER...hang on to what you know in your heart to be true. Yes...we may very well end up in the crapper. 

Just remain true to yourself. I believe that is as good as it gets.

...and of course..in my belief system...and to quote Auhnold

&lt;blockquote&gt; &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt; I&#039;ll be back&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ER&#8230;hang on to what you know in your heart to be true. Yes&#8230;we may very well end up in the crapper. </p>
<p>Just remain true to yourself. I believe that is as good as it gets.</p>
<p>&#8230;and of course..in my belief system&#8230;and to quote Auhnold</p>
<blockquote><p> <i><b> I&#8217;ll be back</b></i></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/#comment-18145</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=21639#comment-18145</guid>
		<description>He keeps on sending me these viral emails from his right-wing business buddies, and I keep on sending him snopes links debunking them.  But he doesn&#039;t seem to learn.  He WANTS to believe so bad.

He&#039;s all upset because the housing crash caught him over-leveraged, owning more underwater properties than he could give away, and with his cash clients all failing to meet their mortgage obligations. He&#039;s stuck with his tit in a wringer, and now he is desperate to blame Obama, and I just tell him, 

&quot;But Bro, you&#039;re the mortgage broker, didn&#039;t you see any of this coming?&quot;

Now, finally, things are starting to look up for him, after spending the last 3 years driving a delivery truck for Nissan, re-financing his house and living off his wife&#039;s earnings.  When I ask him if it was maybe Obama&#039;s doing, he replies,

&quot;Definitely not, the market would have picked up sooner or later anyway.&quot;



&lt;blockquote&gt;Idiot wind blowing through the buttons of our coats
Blowing through the letters that we wrote
Idiot wind blowing through the dust upon our shelves
We&#039;re idiots babe
It&#039;s a wonder we can even feed ourselves.

Bob Dylan&lt;/blockquote&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He keeps on sending me these viral emails from his right-wing business buddies, and I keep on sending him snopes links debunking them.  But he doesn&#8217;t seem to learn.  He WANTS to believe so bad.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s all upset because the housing crash caught him over-leveraged, owning more underwater properties than he could give away, and with his cash clients all failing to meet their mortgage obligations. He&#8217;s stuck with his tit in a wringer, and now he is desperate to blame Obama, and I just tell him, </p>
<p>&#8220;But Bro, you&#8217;re the mortgage broker, didn&#8217;t you see any of this coming?&#8221;</p>
<p>Now, finally, things are starting to look up for him, after spending the last 3 years driving a delivery truck for Nissan, re-financing his house and living off his wife&#8217;s earnings.  When I ask him if it was maybe Obama&#8217;s doing, he replies,</p>
<p>&#8220;Definitely not, the market would have picked up sooner or later anyway.&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>Idiot wind blowing through the buttons of our coats<br />
Blowing through the letters that we wrote<br />
Idiot wind blowing through the dust upon our shelves<br />
We&#8217;re idiots babe<br />
It&#8217;s a wonder we can even feed ourselves.</p>
<p>Bob Dylan</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/#comment-18144</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=21639#comment-18144</guid>
		<description>I got a visit with brother #2 on Saturday. I find myself in a very interesting position. Brother # 2 is very Liberal...and very outspoken. Brother # 3 is very Conservative and is very outspoken. 

I&#039;ll keep you posted. I am just gonna sit in the middle and nod when they start their epistles. 

As of right now...and this is a preliminary report, but it appears Liberal Larry just throws up his hands and wants to move to Italy....and Conservative Carry holds on for dear life....packing a gun. hmmmm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got a visit with brother #2 on Saturday. I find myself in a very interesting position. Brother # 2 is very Liberal&#8230;and very outspoken. Brother # 3 is very Conservative and is very outspoken. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll keep you posted. I am just gonna sit in the middle and nod when they start their epistles. </p>
<p>As of right now&#8230;and this is a preliminary report, but it appears Liberal Larry just throws up his hands and wants to move to Italy&#8230;.and Conservative Carry holds on for dear life&#8230;.packing a gun. hmmmm</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/#comment-18141</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=21639#comment-18141</guid>
		<description>try blowing it out your ass, instead.  It will help clear your thought processes. 8)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>try blowing it out your ass, instead.  It will help clear your thought processes. <img src='https://habitablezone.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/#comment-18140</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=21639#comment-18140</guid>
		<description>All politicians lie, its their job, like lawyers and businessmen, they are trying to sell a product or represent their side. They spin, misquote, selectively pick data, ignore embarassing truths, all the tricks and dodges in the propagandist&#039;s grab bag.  Both Republicans and Democrats do this, they always have, so did Whigs and Tories and Federalists and all the rest.  Not only do people subconsciously favor their side, they consciously present it in a better light to persuade the uncommitted and reinforce their allies. People tend to believe what is best for them is what is best for everybody.  It is perfectly natural, not sinister at all.

But the kind of outright lies, misquotes, out-of-context editing and other cheating I&#039;ve seen from conservative Republicans this year is totally unprecedented.  No one in my memory, Republican or Democrat, has ever lied like that.  You have to go back a century or more to see that kind of cheating.

As I pointed out in my response to Buck, I believe it is because the modern conservative has convinced himself so thoroughly in the righteousness of his cause, and the total evil of his opponents, that he feels anything that promotes that cause, or frustrates his enemies, is perfectly justifiable; in fact, it is his moral imperative to employ those methods.  And today, with the country as polarized as it is, he knows that no one on his side will dispute it (even if they know it is wrong) and nothing anyone on the other side thinks matters (even if it is right).

Mr Romney&#039;s etch-a-sketching and flip-flopping were perfectly obvious to his primary opponents, as they pointed out to us every single day of the GOP nominating process.  Now they have all been conveniently forgotten and the Right speaks with one, clear, united voice.  In any Congressional fight, individual legislators will occasionally cross party lines and vote with the other side on matters of principle or the desires of their constituency.  Not in the Republican Caucus.  They are disciplined.  And those who don&#039;t toe the party line, or simultaneously change it like a flock of birds in flight, are quickly replaced with True Believers in GOP primaries.

I&#039;m really scared Jody.  I&#039;ve never seen my country like this before, not even in the darkest days of the Civil Rights era.  I am afraid for what will happen if Romney wins, not because I think he&#039;s a bad man (in fact, he&#039;s probably the best of the lot).  I&#039;m afraid of what follows him, whether he wins or loses. I&#039;m afraid because of what now is considered OK to do in politics, what has become totally acceptable to Republicans, so it is only a matter of time before it is uncritically employed by Democrats using the age-old schoolyard excuse: &quot;they started it&quot;...

Its not just lies, its deliberate obstructionism, legislative blackmail, switching positions for purely tactical reasons, to subordinate national interest to the humiliation of an opponent, unrestricted anonymous campaign contributions, punishing moderates, strict voting discipline, voter suppression and franchise restriction, and all the rest.  The Republicans did not invent any of this, and the Democrats are not innocent of any of it either, but I have never seen it applied as ruthlessly and systematically as I have by the modern conservative movement.  Even the Oath to the Constitution has been superseded, if not replaced, by the Oath to Norquist. Hitler made the Wehrmacht swear allegiance to him, not the nation or the Constitution.  

My party will either be crushed by these tactics, or it will adopt them wholeheartedly, without excuse or apology, and become just as bad.  I almost said &quot;forced to adopt&quot; but I&#039;m not fooling myself, Liberals have no monopoly on civic virtue, they&#039;ll have no more trouble coming up with excuses than the Right did. Either way, I see no good coming from this. I fear for my country.  Not for my party, or my views on welfare or national defense or health care or taxes; I fear for my country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All politicians lie, its their job, like lawyers and businessmen, they are trying to sell a product or represent their side. They spin, misquote, selectively pick data, ignore embarassing truths, all the tricks and dodges in the propagandist&#8217;s grab bag.  Both Republicans and Democrats do this, they always have, so did Whigs and Tories and Federalists and all the rest.  Not only do people subconsciously favor their side, they consciously present it in a better light to persuade the uncommitted and reinforce their allies. People tend to believe what is best for them is what is best for everybody.  It is perfectly natural, not sinister at all.</p>
<p>But the kind of outright lies, misquotes, out-of-context editing and other cheating I&#8217;ve seen from conservative Republicans this year is totally unprecedented.  No one in my memory, Republican or Democrat, has ever lied like that.  You have to go back a century or more to see that kind of cheating.</p>
<p>As I pointed out in my response to Buck, I believe it is because the modern conservative has convinced himself so thoroughly in the righteousness of his cause, and the total evil of his opponents, that he feels anything that promotes that cause, or frustrates his enemies, is perfectly justifiable; in fact, it is his moral imperative to employ those methods.  And today, with the country as polarized as it is, he knows that no one on his side will dispute it (even if they know it is wrong) and nothing anyone on the other side thinks matters (even if it is right).</p>
<p>Mr Romney&#8217;s etch-a-sketching and flip-flopping were perfectly obvious to his primary opponents, as they pointed out to us every single day of the GOP nominating process.  Now they have all been conveniently forgotten and the Right speaks with one, clear, united voice.  In any Congressional fight, individual legislators will occasionally cross party lines and vote with the other side on matters of principle or the desires of their constituency.  Not in the Republican Caucus.  They are disciplined.  And those who don&#8217;t toe the party line, or simultaneously change it like a flock of birds in flight, are quickly replaced with True Believers in GOP primaries.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m really scared Jody.  I&#8217;ve never seen my country like this before, not even in the darkest days of the Civil Rights era.  I am afraid for what will happen if Romney wins, not because I think he&#8217;s a bad man (in fact, he&#8217;s probably the best of the lot).  I&#8217;m afraid of what follows him, whether he wins or loses. I&#8217;m afraid because of what now is considered OK to do in politics, what has become totally acceptable to Republicans, so it is only a matter of time before it is uncritically employed by Democrats using the age-old schoolyard excuse: &#8220;they started it&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>Its not just lies, its deliberate obstructionism, legislative blackmail, switching positions for purely tactical reasons, to subordinate national interest to the humiliation of an opponent, unrestricted anonymous campaign contributions, punishing moderates, strict voting discipline, voter suppression and franchise restriction, and all the rest.  The Republicans did not invent any of this, and the Democrats are not innocent of any of it either, but I have never seen it applied as ruthlessly and systematically as I have by the modern conservative movement.  Even the Oath to the Constitution has been superseded, if not replaced, by the Oath to Norquist. Hitler made the Wehrmacht swear allegiance to him, not the nation or the Constitution.  </p>
<p>My party will either be crushed by these tactics, or it will adopt them wholeheartedly, without excuse or apology, and become just as bad.  I almost said &#8220;forced to adopt&#8221; but I&#8217;m not fooling myself, Liberals have no monopoly on civic virtue, they&#8217;ll have no more trouble coming up with excuses than the Right did. Either way, I see no good coming from this. I fear for my country.  Not for my party, or my views on welfare or national defense or health care or taxes; I fear for my country.</p>
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		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/#comment-18139</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=21639#comment-18139</guid>
		<description>The GOP is far more dishonest in this campaign than they have been in the past.  And that&#039;s saying quite a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The GOP is far more dishonest in this campaign than they have been in the past.  And that&#8217;s saying quite a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/#comment-18138</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=21639#comment-18138</guid>
		<description>Great.  Now I&#039;ve got to clean coffee out of the keyboard again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great.  Now I&#8217;ve got to clean coffee out of the keyboard again.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/#comment-18137</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=21639#comment-18137</guid>
		<description>But Liberals don&#039;t wrap themselves in the flag, quote from scripture, and channel the founding fathers, Austrian economists and Russian science fiction writers.  

We believe what we believe because we&#039;ve thought it over and its our opinion and conviction that we are right.  We don&#039;t claim any justification or legitimacy or authorization from history or the almighty.  

And we&#039;re willing to meet you half way and deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Liberals don&#8217;t wrap themselves in the flag, quote from scripture, and channel the founding fathers, Austrian economists and Russian science fiction writers.  </p>
<p>We believe what we believe because we&#8217;ve thought it over and its our opinion and conviction that we are right.  We don&#8217;t claim any justification or legitimacy or authorization from history or the almighty.  </p>
<p>And we&#8217;re willing to meet you half way and deal.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/09/ryan-nailed-for-a-bold-faced-lie-on-face-the-nation/#comment-18136</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=21639#comment-18136</guid>
		<description>Oh hog wash. This is what happens all the time...WITH BOTH SIDES.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh hog wash. This is what happens all the time&#8230;WITH BOTH SIDES.</p>
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