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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t ask, don&#8217;t tell, and a conversation with a gay man.</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/10/dont-ask-dont-tell-and-a-conversation-with-a-gay-man/</link>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/10/dont-ask-dont-tell-and-a-conversation-with-a-gay-man/#comment-18176</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=21694#comment-18176</guid>
		<description>We&#039;d have to figure out what &quot;recruit&quot; and &quot;hit on&quot; really meant.  Some men will come on stronger than others, both homosexuals and heterosexuals.

I would think &quot;recruit&quot; would be more than a strong pass, occur over time and &quot;no&quot; would not be respected.  I&#039;m sure that happens with homosexuals dealing with straight men, and I&#039;m sure that happens with heterosexuals dealing with young or married women.

When my friend said that homosexuals are interested in homosexuals he was talking about the vast majority, just as we usually talk about the vast majority of heterosexuals.  And I think one problem homosexuals can have is determining if a man is hetero- or bi-sexual.

The big difference to me is if &quot;No, thanks&quot; was respected.  I sort of think that &quot;no harm, no foul&quot; from soccer applies.

I only figured out what a homosexual was at 18, they were nice guys, never made a pass at me, and I&#039;ve never been afraid of them.  However, I don&#039;t want to hear or imagine what they do, I simply can&#039;t imagine it.  It has to be hereditary, because no one could possibly choose to do that stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;d have to figure out what &#8220;recruit&#8221; and &#8220;hit on&#8221; really meant.  Some men will come on stronger than others, both homosexuals and heterosexuals.</p>
<p>I would think &#8220;recruit&#8221; would be more than a strong pass, occur over time and &#8220;no&#8221; would not be respected.  I&#8217;m sure that happens with homosexuals dealing with straight men, and I&#8217;m sure that happens with heterosexuals dealing with young or married women.</p>
<p>When my friend said that homosexuals are interested in homosexuals he was talking about the vast majority, just as we usually talk about the vast majority of heterosexuals.  And I think one problem homosexuals can have is determining if a man is hetero- or bi-sexual.</p>
<p>The big difference to me is if &#8220;No, thanks&#8221; was respected.  I sort of think that &#8220;no harm, no foul&#8221; from soccer applies.</p>
<p>I only figured out what a homosexual was at 18, they were nice guys, never made a pass at me, and I&#8217;ve never been afraid of them.  However, I don&#8217;t want to hear or imagine what they do, I simply can&#8217;t imagine it.  It has to be hereditary, because no one could possibly choose to do that stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/10/dont-ask-dont-tell-and-a-conversation-with-a-gay-man/#comment-18170</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 02:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=21694#comment-18170</guid>
		<description>You know why Bowser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know why Bowser.</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/10/dont-ask-dont-tell-and-a-conversation-with-a-gay-man/#comment-18169</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 01:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=21694#comment-18169</guid>
		<description>If correcting a misstatement in the story is an indictment then I did do that.

I probably should have chosen an example from later in my life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If correcting a misstatement in the story is an indictment then I did do that.</p>
<p>I probably should have chosen an example from later in my life.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/10/dont-ask-dont-tell-and-a-conversation-with-a-gay-man/#comment-18168</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 01:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=21694#comment-18168</guid>
		<description>Would the fact that some man asked you if you were interested in sex been regarded as an indictment of every heterosexual male?  Would you even be writing about it now?  

The guy made an offer, you didn&#039;t accept it, and you both went your own ways.

I think we&#039;ve all been approached by gays just as I suspect all women have been approached by men.  

Tell me why when &quot;no&quot; is accepted as an answer it&#039;s worse for one than the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would the fact that some man asked you if you were interested in sex been regarded as an indictment of every heterosexual male?  Would you even be writing about it now?  </p>
<p>The guy made an offer, you didn&#8217;t accept it, and you both went your own ways.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ve all been approached by gays just as I suspect all women have been approached by men.  </p>
<p>Tell me why when &#8220;no&#8221; is accepted as an answer it&#8217;s worse for one than the other.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/10/dont-ask-dont-tell-and-a-conversation-with-a-gay-man/#comment-18167</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 01:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=21694#comment-18167</guid>
		<description>I agree alcaray.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree alcaray.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/10/dont-ask-dont-tell-and-a-conversation-with-a-gay-man/#comment-18166</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 01:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=21694#comment-18166</guid>
		<description>Bless their hearts....you should go to a gay club...now hunnee....that is trippin&#039; the lights fantastic. 

...and there are predators out there...heterosexual and homosexual...our children are in danger, PERIOD.

In *public*, the male homosexual *pass*  is very discreet, but it is done. The untrained eye won&#039;t even notice.

The lesbian *pass* is discreet too..but I have Gaydar, so I am a step ahead of that game. 

Eh...different levels of homosexuality and heterosexuality. 

Gone on since day one...will continue until the Great Singularity.

Whatever.

People need to chill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bless their hearts&#8230;.you should go to a gay club&#8230;now hunnee&#8230;.that is trippin&#8217; the lights fantastic. </p>
<p>&#8230;and there are predators out there&#8230;heterosexual and homosexual&#8230;our children are in danger, PERIOD.</p>
<p>In *public*, the male homosexual *pass*  is very discreet, but it is done. The untrained eye won&#8217;t even notice.</p>
<p>The lesbian *pass* is discreet too..but I have Gaydar, so I am a step ahead of that game. </p>
<p>Eh&#8230;different levels of homosexuality and heterosexuality. </p>
<p>Gone on since day one&#8230;will continue until the Great Singularity.</p>
<p>Whatever.</p>
<p>People need to chill.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/10/dont-ask-dont-tell-and-a-conversation-with-a-gay-man/#comment-18161</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=21694#comment-18161</guid>
		<description>And it has all occurred fairly recently, and quite quickly.  I would be curious to know if any studies have been conducted to try to explain why this has happened. It wasn&#039;t all that long ago that homosexuality was actually a crime, and even where laws against it were not enforced, there was no social sanction against abusing and persecuting homosexuals; discrimination was rampant, and violence common.  

It seems the change started with the Stonewall Riots in 1969, but it it hard to imagine that there were no precursors or foreshadowings for that event.  The Riots did not arise in a vacuum, they were the result of long repressed pressure that finally exploded.  A lot happened in the 1960s, with Civil Rights, Gay Liberation, Women&#039;s Lib, the Anti-War and Environmental movements all seeming to arise at once. 

Even long hair, made popular by the Beatles and other rock bands, was a really big deal.  No one who wasn&#039;t socially aware and in tune with pop culture in the 60s can possibly imagine how jarring, how bizarre long hair on men was then.  You could get beat up on the street for just wearing your hair wrong in those days, even though there were plenty of fairly recent historical counter-examples such as General Custer, Wild Bill Hickock, Buffalo Bill Cody, not to mention the founders, who either had long hair or owned wigs to simulate it.

Granted, all of these social changes had histories, and they no doubt influenced each other, but it is still notable that it was in the USA.
in the last half of one decade, when it all seemed to happen at once, for no reason.

It was a time of great liberation and freedom for some, and for many others, a time of uncertainty and fear and terrible change.  How do changes like this suddenly occur in a society?  I was there, I saw it happening and was old enough to understand it, and I haven&#039;t a clue.  I don&#039;t even know if a question like that CAN be answered.  There must be a reason, but I doubt if anyone knows, or even if they did, how they could possibly go about proving it to anyone else.  Sometimes natural phenomena are simultaneously undeniable and unexplainable.

Fashions change, look at pictures of the US presidents and note how hair on scalp and face has changed over the last 200 or so years.  Moustaches, sideburns, beards come and go.  But I&#039;m not just talking about fashion, I&#039;m talking about attitudes.  Culture does seem to have a life all its own, totally independent of those human atoms that make it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And it has all occurred fairly recently, and quite quickly.  I would be curious to know if any studies have been conducted to try to explain why this has happened. It wasn&#8217;t all that long ago that homosexuality was actually a crime, and even where laws against it were not enforced, there was no social sanction against abusing and persecuting homosexuals; discrimination was rampant, and violence common.  </p>
<p>It seems the change started with the Stonewall Riots in 1969, but it it hard to imagine that there were no precursors or foreshadowings for that event.  The Riots did not arise in a vacuum, they were the result of long repressed pressure that finally exploded.  A lot happened in the 1960s, with Civil Rights, Gay Liberation, Women&#8217;s Lib, the Anti-War and Environmental movements all seeming to arise at once. </p>
<p>Even long hair, made popular by the Beatles and other rock bands, was a really big deal.  No one who wasn&#8217;t socially aware and in tune with pop culture in the 60s can possibly imagine how jarring, how bizarre long hair on men was then.  You could get beat up on the street for just wearing your hair wrong in those days, even though there were plenty of fairly recent historical counter-examples such as General Custer, Wild Bill Hickock, Buffalo Bill Cody, not to mention the founders, who either had long hair or owned wigs to simulate it.</p>
<p>Granted, all of these social changes had histories, and they no doubt influenced each other, but it is still notable that it was in the USA.<br />
in the last half of one decade, when it all seemed to happen at once, for no reason.</p>
<p>It was a time of great liberation and freedom for some, and for many others, a time of uncertainty and fear and terrible change.  How do changes like this suddenly occur in a society?  I was there, I saw it happening and was old enough to understand it, and I haven&#8217;t a clue.  I don&#8217;t even know if a question like that CAN be answered.  There must be a reason, but I doubt if anyone knows, or even if they did, how they could possibly go about proving it to anyone else.  Sometimes natural phenomena are simultaneously undeniable and unexplainable.</p>
<p>Fashions change, look at pictures of the US presidents and note how hair on scalp and face has changed over the last 200 or so years.  Moustaches, sideburns, beards come and go.  But I&#8217;m not just talking about fashion, I&#8217;m talking about attitudes.  Culture does seem to have a life all its own, totally independent of those human atoms that make it up.</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/10/dont-ask-dont-tell-and-a-conversation-with-a-gay-man/#comment-18160</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=21694#comment-18160</guid>
		<description>&quot;First, he said, homosexuals are interested in homosexuals.  Not recruiting, but experienced homosexuals.&quot;

Several gays have tried to recruit me at several points in my life.  The first time was when I was in high school and pretty oblivious to what was going on.  It was raining and I had a long walk home.  A car stopped and I stupidly took the ride.  The guy had a long story about how much money a good-looking young man could make at the country club.  The story was not explicit and was very subtly put together.  I gradually worked out what he was talking about over the next few days.

Subsequent to that, I&#039;ve been open-minded and friendly towards gays.  And apparently, they (used to) consider me quite attractive.  Proclaiming my straighthood only added mystery and adventure to their fantasy of conquest.  

Geh.  I&#039;ve got several stories on this theme.  Don&#039;t think I will tell them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;First, he said, homosexuals are interested in homosexuals.  Not recruiting, but experienced homosexuals.&#8221;</p>
<p>Several gays have tried to recruit me at several points in my life.  The first time was when I was in high school and pretty oblivious to what was going on.  It was raining and I had a long walk home.  A car stopped and I stupidly took the ride.  The guy had a long story about how much money a good-looking young man could make at the country club.  The story was not explicit and was very subtly put together.  I gradually worked out what he was talking about over the next few days.</p>
<p>Subsequent to that, I&#8217;ve been open-minded and friendly towards gays.  And apparently, they (used to) consider me quite attractive.  Proclaiming my straighthood only added mystery and adventure to their fantasy of conquest.  </p>
<p>Geh.  I&#8217;ve got several stories on this theme.  Don&#8217;t think I will tell them.</p>
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