Fotunately, the B17s could absorb a lot more damage than Bf 109s or FW 190s. So they usually made it home, maybe with a few friendly holes in them.

We had a chopper on board the Dewey whose job was to rescue flyers that had been shot down by N Vietnamese air defense. (They picked up two, and we fished a third out of the water ourselves).

Our first chopper had to be replaced, because on its first training mission, they shot themselves down! The door gunner didn’t properly adjust the stops on his M60 and a round nicked the tip of the rotor blade while they were shooting at practice targets in the water. An unbalanced vibration shook the chopper to pieces and it had to crash land in the ocean. Fortunately, they managed to get a signal off before they sank and we were able to rescue the crew.

Second, the B-17s had an enormous amount of firepower, seemingly unlimited .50 caliber stuff, which is heavy and lethal.

Third, it wasn’t “mano a mano”. When a German fighter approached a bomber, there were bombers all over who could take a shot at him.

And I can imagine an 18 y/o waist gunner with a German fighter more or less in his sights following that plane behind the B-17 next to him. The really did shoot down a lot of themselves.

Not something which is publicized, though. I can see it now.

A B-17 with 3 German planes on it’s nose, and 2 B-17s, the crew claiming to be aces.

But very often fighter engagements ended with neither pilot being able to hit the other, until one or both ran out of ammo or fuel. Or, one pilot realized he was outclassed or in a disadvantageous kinetic energy position so he just ran away or hid in a cloud.

In the case of fighter escorts of bomber formations, the job of the escort was to protect the bombers, not shoot down his opponent. If the bomber completed his mission, the escort fighter completed his, even if he wound up shot down himself.

For the defensive fighters, the ones going after the bombers, their mission was to shoot down bombers, if they wound up in a fight with an enemy escort, they failed, even if they won the dogfight, because the bomber would get through.

It must have been tough for fighter pilots defending their homeland. Not only did they have expose themselves to escort fire, to ignore the attacks of the escorts and make predictable formation attack maneuvers, and not defend themselves, they also had to contend with the bomber’s own gunners.

In a full dogfight, top engine performance mode and high maneuver environment, planes went through a lot of fuel in a hurry, and they usually carried less ammo than for 60 seconds of continuous fire.

Of course, B-17 gunners shot down a lot of B-17s, too.

“The Captain is a peckerhead.”

“You’re too nice.”

“Ain’t nothin’ but a dumb f–king hillbilly.”

Net collapses.

Or someone would come on and mimic FDR.

“I’ve been in war!”

“I’ve been in Eleanor.”

“I’ll take war.”

Gone. Anything to entertain yourself.

We also had a communications device called the 1MC, a PA system for which messages for the whole crew could be passed (usually preceded by the word “Now” to get the crew’s attention), like

“This is not a drill, not a drill, General Quarters, General Quarters, all hands man your battle stations.”

“Now, Petty Officer Reclus, lay to the bridge.”

“Now, Stand by for heavy rolls while maneuvering at speed. Exercise caution on all weather decks.”

“Now, The smoking lamp is out throughout the ship while taking on ammunition.”

some of these 1MC calls marked traditional moments in ship’s routine, usually accompanied by the appropiate notes from the bosun’s pipe (A shrill whistle used to signal and coordinate operations on windy, noisy decks in the days of sail).

“Now, sweepers, sweepers, man your brooms. Give the ship a clean sweepdown fore and aft, sweep down all lower decks, ladders and passageways, now sweepers.”

“Now, dinner for the crew.”

“Now, set the sea and anchor detail”

“Now, boarding party, muster on the main deck, port side.”

“Now, Liberty Call, Liberty Call.” (Authorized hands not on duty may go ashore).

“Now, for the information of all hands,the Naval Exchange Mobile Canteen is on the pier.”
Once I heard an anonymous prankster replace this one with
“Now, for the information of all hands, the Roach Coach is making its approach.”

Once, while in training, I was asked to “pass the word” about the Mobile Canteen rolling down the pier. I grabbed the mike and proudly announced

“Now hear this, the Naval Exchange Mobile Canteen is on the pier.”

I was immediately scolded and dressed down for it. In the REAL NAVY, no one EVER says “Now hear this”. That’s only in the movies.

Its funny how many years later, you can wistfully look back at those things in a nostalgic way, fond memories of an an idealized past.

While its actually happening to you, its insufferable buffoonery: grown men playing at silly sailor games for sentimental, “traditional”, reasons; pretending it all really matters.

In reality, its all about very hard work, discipline, confinement, regimentation, physical discomfort and excruciating boredom. Most of the time for no discernable reason. Yes, running a ship requires constant attention, but why is it necessary on top of that to have everybody always busy all the time. (Yes, I know why, now. But I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.)

The perspective of time alters and distorts the shapes of our experience, or perhaps makes them clear and sharp, finally bringing them into focus. Or is there really any difference?