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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Moondoggle: The Forgotten Opposition to the Apollo Program&#8221;</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/16/moondoggle-the-forgotten-opposition-to-the-apollo-program/</link>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/16/moondoggle-the-forgotten-opposition-to-the-apollo-program/#comment-18486</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2012 18:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=22141#comment-18486</guid>
		<description>However, imagine a scenario where Republicans know a Civil Rights bill will pass.  Just know it.  And they get presented with a watered down affair.  They vote for it, hoping to get away with less of a bill, and the Democrats vote against it, hoping to get the full bill out on the table.

The watered down version passes, and Republicans brag.  It&#039;s an easy mistake to make.  However, it did take Northern Democrats and Republicans to get what we got.

Check the attitude of Republicans toward the UN resolution on the rights of women.  Or the Republicans on the rights of American women, the ERA.   There&#039;s a bit of work for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However, imagine a scenario where Republicans know a Civil Rights bill will pass.  Just know it.  And they get presented with a watered down affair.  They vote for it, hoping to get away with less of a bill, and the Democrats vote against it, hoping to get the full bill out on the table.</p>
<p>The watered down version passes, and Republicans brag.  It&#8217;s an easy mistake to make.  However, it did take Northern Democrats and Republicans to get what we got.</p>
<p>Check the attitude of Republicans toward the UN resolution on the rights of women.  Or the Republicans on the rights of American women, the ERA.   There&#8217;s a bit of work for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/16/moondoggle-the-forgotten-opposition-to-the-apollo-program/#comment-18458</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2012 00:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=22141#comment-18458</guid>
		<description>Maybe you weren&#039;t referring to *those* civil rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe you weren&#8217;t referring to *those* civil rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/16/moondoggle-the-forgotten-opposition-to-the-apollo-program/#comment-18456</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2012 00:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=22141#comment-18456</guid>
		<description>Hey Bowser! Look what I found! I wonder if there is any truth to this...hmmm...&lt;blockquote&gt;Here is the answer to your question:

House of Representatives:
Democrats for:       152
Democrats against:    96
Republicans for:     138
Republicans against:  34

Senate:
Democrats for:        46
Democrats against:    21
Republicans for:      27
Republicans against:   6


Many sources cite numbers provided by an issue of Congressional
Quarterly.  For example, on the web site of the 5th Legislative
District Republican Party for the State of Washington, they state:

&quot;The Congressional Quarterly of June 26, 1964 recorded that in the
Senate, only 69 percent of Democrats (46 for, 21 against) voted for
the Civil Rights Act as compared to 82 percent of Republicans (27 for,
6 against). All southern Democratic senators voted against the act. 
[...]  In the House of Representatives, 61 percent of Democrats (152
for, 96 against) voted for the Civil Rights Act; 92 of the 103
Southern Democrats voted against it. Among Republicans, 80 percent
(138 for, 34 against) voted for it.&quot;

Here is a link to the page on their web site:
http://www.5ldgop.org/new_page_3.htm


Also, an article on Salon.com states:
&quot;According to Congressional Quarterly, the Civil Rights Act of 1964
passed the House 290-130, and Republican support for the bill was much
stronger than Democratic: 61 percent (152-96) of the Democrats
supported the legislation while 80 percent (138-34) of the Republicans
backed it. These numbers were similar in the Senate -- 69 percent of
Democrats (46-21), backed the bill along with 82 percent of
Republicans (27-6).&quot;

Here is the Salon.com article:
&quot;Democratic bigots&quot; by Jake Tapper, July 17, 2000.
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/17/rights/


An excellent article on the CongressLink web site provides a history
of the drafting of the bill and the debates within the two houses of
Congress.  According to the article, this is how the House of
Representatives voted:
&quot;Of the 420 members who voted, 290 supported the civil rights bill and
130 opposed it. Republicans favored the bill 138 to 34; Democrats
supported it 152-96. It is interesting to note that Democrats from
northern states voted overwhelmingly for the bill, 141 to 4, while
Democrats from southern states voted overwhelmingly against the bill,
92 to 11.&quot;

The article later states how the Senate voted:
&quot;[...] the Senate passed the bill by a 73 to 27 roll call vote. Six
Republicans and 21 Democrats held firm and voted against passage.&quot;

Here is the CongressLink article:
&quot;Major Features of the Civil Rights Act of 1964&quot;
http://www.congresslink.org/civil/essay.html


Regards,
sldreamer


Search strategy:

&quot;civil rights act&quot; republicans democrats 1964 
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;safe=off&amp;q=%22civil+rights+act%22+republicans+democrats+1964+&amp;btnG=Google+Search

&quot;civil rights act&quot; &quot;congressional quarterly&quot; republicans democrats
1964
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;safe=off&amp;q=%22civil+rights+act%22+%22congressional+quarterly%22+republicans+democrats+1964&amp;btnG=Google+Search&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Bowser! Look what I found! I wonder if there is any truth to this&#8230;hmmm&#8230;<br />
<blockquote>Here is the answer to your question:</p>
<p>House of Representatives:<br />
Democrats for:       152<br />
Democrats against:    96<br />
Republicans for:     138<br />
Republicans against:  34</p>
<p>Senate:<br />
Democrats for:        46<br />
Democrats against:    21<br />
Republicans for:      27<br />
Republicans against:   6</p>
<p>Many sources cite numbers provided by an issue of Congressional<br />
Quarterly.  For example, on the web site of the 5th Legislative<br />
District Republican Party for the State of Washington, they state:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Congressional Quarterly of June 26, 1964 recorded that in the<br />
Senate, only 69 percent of Democrats (46 for, 21 against) voted for<br />
the Civil Rights Act as compared to 82 percent of Republicans (27 for,<br />
6 against). All southern Democratic senators voted against the act.<br />
[...]  In the House of Representatives, 61 percent of Democrats (152<br />
for, 96 against) voted for the Civil Rights Act; 92 of the 103<br />
Southern Democrats voted against it. Among Republicans, 80 percent<br />
(138 for, 34 against) voted for it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is a link to the page on their web site:<br />
<a href="http://www.5ldgop.org/new_page_3.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.5ldgop.org/new_page_3.htm</a></p>
<p>Also, an article on Salon.com states:<br />
&#8220;According to Congressional Quarterly, the Civil Rights Act of 1964<br />
passed the House 290-130, and Republican support for the bill was much<br />
stronger than Democratic: 61 percent (152-96) of the Democrats<br />
supported the legislation while 80 percent (138-34) of the Republicans<br />
backed it. These numbers were similar in the Senate &#8212; 69 percent of<br />
Democrats (46-21), backed the bill along with 82 percent of<br />
Republicans (27-6).&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is the Salon.com article:<br />
&#8220;Democratic bigots&#8221; by Jake Tapper, July 17, 2000.<br />
<a href="http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/17/rights/" rel="nofollow">http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/17/rights/</a></p>
<p>An excellent article on the CongressLink web site provides a history<br />
of the drafting of the bill and the debates within the two houses of<br />
Congress.  According to the article, this is how the House of<br />
Representatives voted:<br />
&#8220;Of the 420 members who voted, 290 supported the civil rights bill and<br />
130 opposed it. Republicans favored the bill 138 to 34; Democrats<br />
supported it 152-96. It is interesting to note that Democrats from<br />
northern states voted overwhelmingly for the bill, 141 to 4, while<br />
Democrats from southern states voted overwhelmingly against the bill,<br />
92 to 11.&#8221;</p>
<p>The article later states how the Senate voted:<br />
&#8220;[...] the Senate passed the bill by a 73 to 27 roll call vote. Six<br />
Republicans and 21 Democrats held firm and voted against passage.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is the CongressLink article:<br />
&#8220;Major Features of the Civil Rights Act of 1964&#8243;<br />
<a href="http://www.congresslink.org/civil/essay.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.congresslink.org/civil/essay.html</a></p>
<p>Regards,<br />
sldreamer</p>
<p>Search strategy:</p>
<p>&#8220;civil rights act&#8221; republicans democrats 1964<br />
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;safe=off&amp;q=%22civil+rights+act%22+republicans+democrats+1964+&amp;btnG=Google+Search</p>
<p>&#8220;civil rights act&#8221; &#8220;congressional quarterly&#8221; republicans democrats<br />
1964<br />
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;safe=off&amp;q=%22civil+rights+act%22+%22congressional+quarterly%22+republicans+democrats+1964&amp;btnG=Google+Search</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/16/moondoggle-the-forgotten-opposition-to-the-apollo-program/#comment-18443</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 20:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=22141#comment-18443</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s over.  Apollo flew, the money was spent, and then it was done.

We celebrate what happened.  

Let&#039;s say someone&#039;s daughter got pregnant out of wedlock.  There might be bitching, moaning, arguing about costs, lectures, tears, more griping.

Once the kid is born it&#039;s embraced.  There is no more bitching, moaning and arguing.  It would be foolish to the point of being almost sick.

It&#039;s natural that the successes of the Apollo mission be remember.  It&#039;s the winners who write the history.

The Republicans have fought ever social change we&#039;ve had, Workers Compensation, Civil Rights, Social Security, but no one remembers that.  Republicans claim now to have been great supporters of those things.  Wouldn&#039;t have happened without &#039;em.

As I said, the winners write the history.  We celebrate what happened, we don&#039;t keep on crying about the costs.  (Which were enormous.  Not sure it was worth it, really.  I don&#039;t think we know much more now than had we stuck to robots.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s over.  Apollo flew, the money was spent, and then it was done.</p>
<p>We celebrate what happened.  </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say someone&#8217;s daughter got pregnant out of wedlock.  There might be bitching, moaning, arguing about costs, lectures, tears, more griping.</p>
<p>Once the kid is born it&#8217;s embraced.  There is no more bitching, moaning and arguing.  It would be foolish to the point of being almost sick.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s natural that the successes of the Apollo mission be remember.  It&#8217;s the winners who write the history.</p>
<p>The Republicans have fought ever social change we&#8217;ve had, Workers Compensation, Civil Rights, Social Security, but no one remembers that.  Republicans claim now to have been great supporters of those things.  Wouldn&#8217;t have happened without &#8216;em.</p>
<p>As I said, the winners write the history.  We celebrate what happened, we don&#8217;t keep on crying about the costs.  (Which were enormous.  Not sure it was worth it, really.  I don&#8217;t think we know much more now than had we stuck to robots.)</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/16/moondoggle-the-forgotten-opposition-to-the-apollo-program/#comment-18430</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=22141#comment-18430</guid>
		<description>I determined the entire Apollo program, spread out over a decade, cost less than just one year in Viet Nam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I determined the entire Apollo program, spread out over a decade, cost less than just one year in Viet Nam.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/16/moondoggle-the-forgotten-opposition-to-the-apollo-program/#comment-18428</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=22141#comment-18428</guid>
		<description>...writing a 1 followed by an impressive number of zeros on the board.  And saying that this is how much money this was going to cost.  And going on to point out that it was an irresponsible amount of money to spend on something so frivolous.  She went on and on and was quite upset.

This was kind of silly because we were 5 graders.  We did not read newspapers, did not know much of anything about federal budgeting or politics.  I doubt she made any converts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;writing a 1 followed by an impressive number of zeros on the board.  And saying that this is how much money this was going to cost.  And going on to point out that it was an irresponsible amount of money to spend on something so frivolous.  She went on and on and was quite upset.</p>
<p>This was kind of silly because we were 5 graders.  We did not read newspapers, did not know much of anything about federal budgeting or politics.  I doubt she made any converts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/09/16/moondoggle-the-forgotten-opposition-to-the-apollo-program/#comment-18407</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 17:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=22141#comment-18407</guid>
		<description>I was a high school student during the early days of the space program, and I remember well the opposition to it.  As a science and space enthusiast, and for patriotic reasons (I was 10 years old when the Soviets launched the first artificial satellite), I was outraged at what seemed to be a general opposition, or at best, a lukewarm support, for space exploration.  I didn&#039;t take a survey, but I would have guessed most people really didn&#039;t care, and a substantial fraction actually opposed it.  Downright boosting like mine was rare. Except for rabid space groupies like myself, even pro-space people tended to be somewhat tepid in their approval. If the opponents had bothered to organize or demonstrate their disapproval publicly, there probably would have been no space program at all except for the development of ICBMs and (under corporate lobbying) COMSATs.

Most people used some variation of the same old line, &quot;There are too many problems here on earth for us to be wasting money in outer space.&quot;  Well, they were right.  But they were also very fundamentally  wrong.  It all depends on your point of view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a high school student during the early days of the space program, and I remember well the opposition to it.  As a science and space enthusiast, and for patriotic reasons (I was 10 years old when the Soviets launched the first artificial satellite), I was outraged at what seemed to be a general opposition, or at best, a lukewarm support, for space exploration.  I didn&#8217;t take a survey, but I would have guessed most people really didn&#8217;t care, and a substantial fraction actually opposed it.  Downright boosting like mine was rare. Except for rabid space groupies like myself, even pro-space people tended to be somewhat tepid in their approval. If the opponents had bothered to organize or demonstrate their disapproval publicly, there probably would have been no space program at all except for the development of ICBMs and (under corporate lobbying) COMSATs.</p>
<p>Most people used some variation of the same old line, &#8220;There are too many problems here on earth for us to be wasting money in outer space.&#8221;  Well, they were right.  But they were also very fundamentally  wrong.  It all depends on your point of view.</p>
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