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	<title>Comments on: Nested Universe?</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/</link>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/#comment-21152</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 05:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=26968#comment-21152</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s mass, demonstrably, is here.  The effects of its mass are apparent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s mass, demonstrably, is here.  The effects of its mass are apparent.</p>
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		<title>By: FrankC</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/#comment-21141</link>
		<dc:creator>FrankC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 03:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=26968#comment-21141</guid>
		<description>I have heard cosmologists say they do no know what happens to the objects that enter the event horizon. Some speculate it creates a white hole in some alt universe

Either way with as little as we know about the subject there is no reason to exclude the possibility that a black hole could exist in 2 different dimensions. Who knows?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have heard cosmologists say they do no know what happens to the objects that enter the event horizon. Some speculate it creates a white hole in some alt universe</p>
<p>Either way with as little as we know about the subject there is no reason to exclude the possibility that a black hole could exist in 2 different dimensions. Who knows?</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/#comment-21140</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 02:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=26968#comment-21140</guid>
		<description>Lot&#039;s of mass here, makes a black hole here.  Mass somewhere else, does not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lot&#8217;s of mass here, makes a black hole here.  Mass somewhere else, does not.</p>
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		<title>By: FrankC</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/#comment-21139</link>
		<dc:creator>FrankC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 01:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=26968#comment-21139</guid>
		<description>In fact, I would assume that the matter is immediately sent to an alternate universe/dimension in the same way a pipeline delivers matter to a specific location outside of a house. 

If that location happened to be a septic tank it would contain the matter until it reached a capacity whereby it could contain no more. It would then overflow or in the case of our black hole conduit, it would explode into a BB. 

We have no idea what happens to the mass that is consumed by a black hole. It could be instantly transferred to an alternate universe and reside there as an infinitely tiny speck until it reaches some kind of critical mass and goes BB.

In the case of our own BB, how long had the compressed matter that was to become our universe existed and what caused it to suddenly explode if not a continuous source of additional matter that finally caused it to go boom.

Think of the black hole as a funnel with the mouth in our universe and the tail in another dimension/universe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, I would assume that the matter is immediately sent to an alternate universe/dimension in the same way a pipeline delivers matter to a specific location outside of a house. </p>
<p>If that location happened to be a septic tank it would contain the matter until it reached a capacity whereby it could contain no more. It would then overflow or in the case of our black hole conduit, it would explode into a BB. </p>
<p>We have no idea what happens to the mass that is consumed by a black hole. It could be instantly transferred to an alternate universe and reside there as an infinitely tiny speck until it reaches some kind of critical mass and goes BB.</p>
<p>In the case of our own BB, how long had the compressed matter that was to become our universe existed and what caused it to suddenly explode if not a continuous source of additional matter that finally caused it to go boom.</p>
<p>Think of the black hole as a funnel with the mouth in our universe and the tail in another dimension/universe.</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/#comment-21131</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=26968#comment-21131</guid>
		<description>...and then migrates to the other dimension?  I thought you were saying anything beyond the event horizon exists in the other dimension (it bothers me a little to continue to use the scifi definition of &quot;dimension&quot; like this).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and then migrates to the other dimension?  I thought you were saying anything beyond the event horizon exists in the other dimension (it bothers me a little to continue to use the scifi definition of &#8220;dimension&#8221; like this).</p>
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		<title>By: FrankC</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/#comment-21129</link>
		<dc:creator>FrankC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=26968#comment-21129</guid>
		<description>We only found them, what, twenty years ago and we have identified, how many?

Theoretically there are billions of them and each galaxy has a huge BH at it&#039;s center.

Having only learned of their existence a couple of decades ago, we can&#039;t say much about their persistence, cosmologically speaking.

In case I somehow missed your point, my imaginative theory is that not all black holes collect sufficient mass to create a big bang. Perhaps only the galaxy center black holes. I have no theory on how long it takes. Time is always on the side of cosmic incidents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We only found them, what, twenty years ago and we have identified, how many?</p>
<p>Theoretically there are billions of them and each galaxy has a huge BH at it&#8217;s center.</p>
<p>Having only learned of their existence a couple of decades ago, we can&#8217;t say much about their persistence, cosmologically speaking.</p>
<p>In case I somehow missed your point, my imaginative theory is that not all black holes collect sufficient mass to create a big bang. Perhaps only the galaxy center black holes. I have no theory on how long it takes. Time is always on the side of cosmic incidents.</p>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/#comment-21124</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 16:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=26968#comment-21124</guid>
		<description>They had to explain what is causing the acceleration so they invented dark energy. Makes you wonder what will stop the acceleration other than the speed limit.Will the universe run out of dark energy before it reaches the speed of light? 

Another thing I don&#039;t understand is if the balloon model is correct, and space is expanding, then we are moving away from the objects at the edge of the observable universe in the other direction. We are moving away from the point where it started, when when we were &quot;next&quot; to these distant galaxies.

So wouldn&#039;t those objects at 13B lt yrs only have traveled half that distance in half the time?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They had to explain what is causing the acceleration so they invented dark energy. Makes you wonder what will stop the acceleration other than the speed limit.Will the universe run out of dark energy before it reaches the speed of light? </p>
<p>Another thing I don&#8217;t understand is if the balloon model is correct, and space is expanding, then we are moving away from the objects at the edge of the observable universe in the other direction. We are moving away from the point where it started, when when we were &#8220;next&#8221; to these distant galaxies.</p>
<p>So wouldn&#8217;t those objects at 13B lt yrs only have traveled half that distance in half the time?</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/#comment-21123</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=26968#comment-21123</guid>
		<description>but when I formally studied astronomy, the Big Bang wasn&#039;t yet agreed upon by all astronomers, and some older textbooks still claimed the solar system was a freak caused by a &quot;just right&quot; tidal encounter with another star.  People were still hoping there were fields of vegetation on Mars and that Venus was a jungle planet, a water world, or alternatively, covered with an ocean of petroleum.

Since then, I&#039;ve done little to keep up with astrophysics and cosmology other than read Sky and Telescope, and I let my subscription expire a couple of years ago.

The only specialty I&#039;ve stayed pretty current with is positional astronomy (because of my interest in navigation and cartography).  I studied that under two of the acknowledged masters in the field, George Gatewood and Heinrich Eichorn.

The field is changing fast as it is impacted by all this new data coming in from the space program, and it is pretty much in disarray.  But that&#039;s a good thing.  A very good thing.

One advantage of being old is you develop a feeling for how things are progressing in a rapidly evolving field.  We know a great deal more now than we did in the 60s, but we&#039;re a lot less sure we know what it all means than we were then.  Its a cliche, but it is also undeniable, the more you learn, the more you realize how little you know.  

The swamp looks very different when you&#039;re deep inside it than it did when you walked up to the edge of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but when I formally studied astronomy, the Big Bang wasn&#8217;t yet agreed upon by all astronomers, and some older textbooks still claimed the solar system was a freak caused by a &#8220;just right&#8221; tidal encounter with another star.  People were still hoping there were fields of vegetation on Mars and that Venus was a jungle planet, a water world, or alternatively, covered with an ocean of petroleum.</p>
<p>Since then, I&#8217;ve done little to keep up with astrophysics and cosmology other than read Sky and Telescope, and I let my subscription expire a couple of years ago.</p>
<p>The only specialty I&#8217;ve stayed pretty current with is positional astronomy (because of my interest in navigation and cartography).  I studied that under two of the acknowledged masters in the field, George Gatewood and Heinrich Eichorn.</p>
<p>The field is changing fast as it is impacted by all this new data coming in from the space program, and it is pretty much in disarray.  But that&#8217;s a good thing.  A very good thing.</p>
<p>One advantage of being old is you develop a feeling for how things are progressing in a rapidly evolving field.  We know a great deal more now than we did in the 60s, but we&#8217;re a lot less sure we know what it all means than we were then.  Its a cliche, but it is also undeniable, the more you learn, the more you realize how little you know.  </p>
<p>The swamp looks very different when you&#8217;re deep inside it than it did when you walked up to the edge of it.</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/#comment-21122</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 06:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=26968#comment-21122</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s been around since at least, the astronomy class I took in the 80s.  And there are a lot of versions of inflation to choose from.  Certainly not just the one you mention.  Some do have inflation continuing forever.  Some have inflation lasting for only a fraction of a second in the very beginnings of the universe.  I think this is the reason that nobody in the non-sciences world understands it - every time we hear a popular explanation it is from a slightly different version than the one we heard before.  Or worse, it is explained by somebody trying to make a synthesis of multiple accounts (based on different versions) he has heard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been around since at least, the astronomy class I took in the 80s.  And there are a lot of versions of inflation to choose from.  Certainly not just the one you mention.  Some do have inflation continuing forever.  Some have inflation lasting for only a fraction of a second in the very beginnings of the universe.  I think this is the reason that nobody in the non-sciences world understands it &#8211; every time we hear a popular explanation it is from a slightly different version than the one we heard before.  Or worse, it is explained by somebody trying to make a synthesis of multiple accounts (based on different versions) he has heard.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2012/11/26/nested-universe/#comment-21121</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 05:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=26968#comment-21121</guid>
		<description>Expansion refers to the red-shift discovered by Hubble--raisins in a loaf, dots on a balloon, etc. It is the speed of recession of distant galaxies, but that speed is a function of distance.  The galaxies are not flying apart like shrapnel in an explosion, they are all stationary and space itself is expanding.

Inflation is something new and I&#039;m not too sure I understand it.  It has to do with the early universe expanding faster than light right after the Big Bang. It is now a proposed solution to some variations and anomalies in the expansion that have been detected recently.

What makes the expansion more like your option 2) is that the rate of expansion increases with distance.  Nearby galaxies are receding at slower speeds than distant galaxies.  In fact, the speed of recession is a linear function of distance, and its slope is called the Hubble Constant.

Its value is constantly being updated.  According to Wikipedia,

&quot;As of 3rd Oct 2012 the Hubble Constant, as measured by NASA&#039;s Spitzer Telescope and reported in Science Daily, is 74.3 ± 2.1 (km/s)/Mpc.&quot;

This means that for every million parsecs of distance, the speed of expansion increases by 
roughly 74 kilometers per second.

A parsec (parallax-second) is about 3.26 light years.  It is a unit convenient to astronomers because it is the distance at which the radius of earth&#039;s orbit (an Astronomical Unit) subtends an angle of 1 second of arc. The unit was useful for baseline triangulation of stellar distances, and astronomers still use it because they are incurable traditionalists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Expansion refers to the red-shift discovered by Hubble&#8211;raisins in a loaf, dots on a balloon, etc. It is the speed of recession of distant galaxies, but that speed is a function of distance.  The galaxies are not flying apart like shrapnel in an explosion, they are all stationary and space itself is expanding.</p>
<p>Inflation is something new and I&#8217;m not too sure I understand it.  It has to do with the early universe expanding faster than light right after the Big Bang. It is now a proposed solution to some variations and anomalies in the expansion that have been detected recently.</p>
<p>What makes the expansion more like your option 2) is that the rate of expansion increases with distance.  Nearby galaxies are receding at slower speeds than distant galaxies.  In fact, the speed of recession is a linear function of distance, and its slope is called the Hubble Constant.</p>
<p>Its value is constantly being updated.  According to Wikipedia,</p>
<p>&#8220;As of 3rd Oct 2012 the Hubble Constant, as measured by NASA&#8217;s Spitzer Telescope and reported in Science Daily, is 74.3 ± 2.1 (km/s)/Mpc.&#8221;</p>
<p>This means that for every million parsecs of distance, the speed of expansion increases by<br />
roughly 74 kilometers per second.</p>
<p>A parsec (parallax-second) is about 3.26 light years.  It is a unit convenient to astronomers because it is the distance at which the radius of earth&#8217;s orbit (an Astronomical Unit) subtends an angle of 1 second of arc. The unit was useful for baseline triangulation of stellar distances, and astronomers still use it because they are incurable traditionalists.</p>
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