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	<title>Comments on: Circling the fiscal drain</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/</link>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/#comment-22588</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 21:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/#comment-22577</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 08:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=29540#comment-22577</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not used to such capitulation on your part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not used to such capitulation on your part.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/#comment-22574</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 02:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=29540#comment-22574</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ll even help you out.&lt;/p&gt;

The outlays shown on the graph already include military spending.

There&#039;s a chart in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this paper&lt;/a&gt; about seven pages in.  Go ahead and subtract the annual numbers from the appropriate point on the outlay graph to see what you get.

Ideally, you&#039;d correct the table to constant 2005 dollars, but I think the difference would be lost in the noise.

You could cut through a lot of the crap by simply noting that the total $1.4 trillion cost of the wars to date (since 2001) aren&#039;t much higher than the deficit for just 2011.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll even help you out.</p>
<p>The outlays shown on the graph already include military spending.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a chart in <a href="http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf" rel="nofollow">this paper</a> about seven pages in.  Go ahead and subtract the annual numbers from the appropriate point on the outlay graph to see what you get.</p>
<p>Ideally, you&#8217;d correct the table to constant 2005 dollars, but I think the difference would be lost in the noise.</p>
<p>You could cut through a lot of the crap by simply noting that the total $1.4 trillion cost of the wars to date (since 2001) aren&#8217;t much higher than the deficit for just 2011.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/#comment-22571</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 02:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=29540#comment-22571</guid>
		<description>Your side had plenty to do with getting us here, and wants to do the same thing to get us out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your side had plenty to do with getting us here, and wants to do the same thing to get us out.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/#comment-22570</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 02:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=29540#comment-22570</guid>
		<description>Then factor in the surplus Bush inherited.  The one which created jobs in hedge funds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then factor in the surplus Bush inherited.  The one which created jobs in hedge funds.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/#comment-22569</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 02:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=29540#comment-22569</guid>
		<description>Go ahead and try it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go ahead and try it.</p>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/#comment-22567</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 01:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=29540#comment-22567</guid>
		<description>Good points n/t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points n/t</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/#comment-22564</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 00:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=29540#comment-22564</guid>
		<description>Instead of vice versa, like you&#039;ve got it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of vice versa, like you&#8217;ve got it.</p>
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		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/#comment-22562</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 22:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=29540#comment-22562</guid>
		<description>Again,  there is nothing wrong with negotiating over the sequester or even the continuing resolution.  There is something very deeply wrong with using the debt ceiling as leverage since it is the economic equivalent of terrorism.  

Most Americans, myself included, support entitlement reform and tax reform.  Ronald Reagan and Tip O&#039;Neil could solve all of our problems in about 10 minutes.  It&#039;s a matter of cutting spending and raising revenues.  But there is a group of teabagger crazies in Congress who don&#039;t want to solve the nation&#039;s problems, they want to bring down the entire federal government because of their paranoid fears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again,  there is nothing wrong with negotiating over the sequester or even the continuing resolution.  There is something very deeply wrong with using the debt ceiling as leverage since it is the economic equivalent of terrorism.  </p>
<p>Most Americans, myself included, support entitlement reform and tax reform.  Ronald Reagan and Tip O&#8217;Neil could solve all of our problems in about 10 minutes.  It&#8217;s a matter of cutting spending and raising revenues.  But there is a group of teabagger crazies in Congress who don&#8217;t want to solve the nation&#8217;s problems, they want to bring down the entire federal government because of their paranoid fears.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/01/05/circling-the-fiscal-drain/#comment-22561</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 22:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=29540#comment-22561</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You might want to take a look at those 2011 &quot;budget cuts.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

They&#039;re mostly &quot;discretionary caps&quot; on future spending, a promise to cut spending down the road. Honest.  If you think those cuts will ever take place, I&#039;ve got a bridge to sell you.

So it&#039;s the old gag: a tax increase right now, in exchange for nebulous spending cuts later.  The Democrats have pulled this more than once.

Remember the &quot;Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction&quot; that was supposed to identify $1.2 trillion in budget cuts by November 2011?  It disbanded in January 2012 after producing exactly nothing.  Put it up on the shelf with Simpson-Bowles.

No real spending cuts have taken place, other than a few billion token cuts. The budget projections from Obama&#039;s last proposal will have us at a budget of $5.5 trillion in ten years.

I&#039;m not addressing the &quot;debt limit fight&quot; because I&#039;m not chasing the red herring.  All the propaganda in the next few months is going to be about the debt limit, because the Democrats damn well don&#039;t want to talk about the actual debt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might want to take a look at those 2011 &#8220;budget cuts.&#8221;</p>
<p>They&#8217;re mostly &#8220;discretionary caps&#8221; on future spending, a promise to cut spending down the road. Honest.  If you think those cuts will ever take place, I&#8217;ve got a bridge to sell you.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s the old gag: a tax increase right now, in exchange for nebulous spending cuts later.  The Democrats have pulled this more than once.</p>
<p>Remember the &#8220;Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction&#8221; that was supposed to identify $1.2 trillion in budget cuts by November 2011?  It disbanded in January 2012 after producing exactly nothing.  Put it up on the shelf with Simpson-Bowles.</p>
<p>No real spending cuts have taken place, other than a few billion token cuts. The budget projections from Obama&#8217;s last proposal will have us at a budget of $5.5 trillion in ten years.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not addressing the &#8220;debt limit fight&#8221; because I&#8217;m not chasing the red herring.  All the propaganda in the next few months is going to be about the debt limit, because the Democrats damn well don&#8217;t want to talk about the actual debt.</p>
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