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	<title>Comments on: A glimpse at a cashless society</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/16/a-glimpse-at-a-cashless-society/</link>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/16/a-glimpse-at-a-cashless-society/#comment-26883</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Sep 2013 03:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.net/?p=37873#comment-26883</guid>
		<description>ER&#039;s right about economics and politics but they can be complementary. But damn, if I was mod, I couldn&#039;t shoot from the hip anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ER&#8217;s right about economics and politics but they can be complementary. But damn, if I was mod, I couldn&#8217;t shoot from the hip anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/16/a-glimpse-at-a-cashless-society/#comment-26871</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Sep 2013 21:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.net/?p=37873#comment-26871</guid>
		<description>The more complicated the argument to convince them something is valuable, then the less likely is its adoption.  On the other hand, if it is in place and shows its value for all to see, then people will adopt it immediately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more complicated the argument to convince them something is valuable, then the less likely is its adoption.  On the other hand, if it is in place and shows its value for all to see, then people will adopt it immediately.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/16/a-glimpse-at-a-cashless-society/#comment-26867</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.net/?p=37873#comment-26867</guid>
		<description>Politics and economics are inseparable, the only reason we have the former is to change or protect the latter.  Have you ever heard of any political change in history that wasn&#039;t accompanied by a simultaneous alteration or entrenchment of the economic hierarchy?

Or to put it another way, all those prosperous planters, merchants and shipbuilders in the colonies could care less what King George was up to until he raised their taxes.  The ones that tended to benefit by his policies instantly lined up behind him.

The others, we call &quot;Patriots&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politics and economics are inseparable, the only reason we have the former is to change or protect the latter.  Have you ever heard of any political change in history that wasn&#8217;t accompanied by a simultaneous alteration or entrenchment of the economic hierarchy?</p>
<p>Or to put it another way, all those prosperous planters, merchants and shipbuilders in the colonies could care less what King George was up to until he raised their taxes.  The ones that tended to benefit by his policies instantly lined up behind him.</p>
<p>The others, we call &#8220;Patriots&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/16/a-glimpse-at-a-cashless-society/#comment-26860</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Sep 2013 17:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.net/?p=37873#comment-26860</guid>
		<description>I think we&#039;ve had parallel experiences trying to explore economics in an essentially political forum. Too bad, because reality will force new economics on us whether we like it or not; you can see it coming as digital technologies push costs to zero, unhinging the familiar fundamental economic calculations and leading to experiments like open source and bitcoins. 

I have a suspicion--or a hope--that if traditional capitalism continues to fail large numbers of people, people will ultimately create a different economy that re-enfranchises them and leaves the capitalists out in the cold. That&#039;s one way to interpret bitcoinage and talk of &quot;reputation markets&quot;, and the radical idea of open source that you can prosper by giving it away. I sense an underlying theme of trying to break out of, or circumvent, capitalism with systems harder to game and subvert, that spread the benefits more widely and equitably. The impulse to economic democracy may be wounded these days, but it&#039;s not dead; and the 0.1% is foolish indeed if it thinks the present plutocratic order will last forever.

Keep an eye on the millenials, too. I think they&#039;re quietly building their own world in parallel with ours, and their rules are unlikely to be our rules--these are the kids being told that capitalism offers them a bleak future any more, and we can&#039;t expect them to just roll over and be poor because the gray-haired Establishment says so. I&#039;d suggest that if we don&#039;t want them cannibalizing our pensions in 20 years, we should do better by those kids today.

How do we manage to continue talking about economic theory in a highly politicized environment? Do we need a new board to signal a more serious atmosphere? Want to moderate the &quot;Economics&quot; board?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we&#8217;ve had parallel experiences trying to explore economics in an essentially political forum. Too bad, because reality will force new economics on us whether we like it or not; you can see it coming as digital technologies push costs to zero, unhinging the familiar fundamental economic calculations and leading to experiments like open source and bitcoins. </p>
<p>I have a suspicion&#8211;or a hope&#8211;that if traditional capitalism continues to fail large numbers of people, people will ultimately create a different economy that re-enfranchises them and leaves the capitalists out in the cold. That&#8217;s one way to interpret bitcoinage and talk of &#8220;reputation markets&#8221;, and the radical idea of open source that you can prosper by giving it away. I sense an underlying theme of trying to break out of, or circumvent, capitalism with systems harder to game and subvert, that spread the benefits more widely and equitably. The impulse to economic democracy may be wounded these days, but it&#8217;s not dead; and the 0.1% is foolish indeed if it thinks the present plutocratic order will last forever.</p>
<p>Keep an eye on the millenials, too. I think they&#8217;re quietly building their own world in parallel with ours, and their rules are unlikely to be our rules&#8211;these are the kids being told that capitalism offers them a bleak future any more, and we can&#8217;t expect them to just roll over and be poor because the gray-haired Establishment says so. I&#8217;d suggest that if we don&#8217;t want them cannibalizing our pensions in 20 years, we should do better by those kids today.</p>
<p>How do we manage to continue talking about economic theory in a highly politicized environment? Do we need a new board to signal a more serious atmosphere? Want to moderate the &#8220;Economics&#8221; board?</p>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/16/a-glimpse-at-a-cashless-society/#comment-26831</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Sep 2013 00:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.net/?p=37873#comment-26831</guid>
		<description>You picked up on the reward for &quot;responsibility&quot; concept. The other key point about capitalism was &quot;possession&quot;. Also there was talk about recourse allocation.

At this point Tom would be howling about central control. I can see that as a problem too.

I have had an intuitive itch about how this could work since the 80&#039;s.

The mechanics are where it gets interesting. That is were I desired discourse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You picked up on the reward for &#8220;responsibility&#8221; concept. The other key point about capitalism was &#8220;possession&#8221;. Also there was talk about recourse allocation.</p>
<p>At this point Tom would be howling about central control. I can see that as a problem too.</p>
<p>I have had an intuitive itch about how this could work since the 80&#8242;s.</p>
<p>The mechanics are where it gets interesting. That is were I desired discourse.</p>
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		<title>By: alcaray</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/16/a-glimpse-at-a-cashless-society/#comment-26830</link>
		<dc:creator>alcaray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Sep 2013 21:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.net/?p=37873#comment-26830</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s my prediction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s my prediction.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/16/a-glimpse-at-a-cashless-society/#comment-26828</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Sep 2013 19:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.net/?p=37873#comment-26828</guid>
		<description>I think that&#039;s what Graves means by &quot;the myth of possession&quot;. But to be honest, the whole thing didn&#039;t make a lot of sense to me. Maybe it&#039;s because I was looking for something in the way of a concrete description of a &quot;cashless society&quot;. There was talk about &quot;responsibility&quot; being the real basis of economic activity anyway, which is reminiscent of talk last decade about &quot;reputational economies&quot; whereby your prosperity depends on what people think of you (and their willingness to trust you by giving you money).

&quot;Cashless&quot; seems to have many meanings, from the mundane one of the use of electronic bookkeeping instead of pieces of paper and metal discs, to a society that dispenses with the concept of money altogether, like Ryker snottily pronouncing that he doesn&#039;t need money in the Federation&#039;s 24th century cashless economy.

What do &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; mean by &quot;cashless society&quot;, Rob?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s what Graves means by &#8220;the myth of possession&#8221;. But to be honest, the whole thing didn&#8217;t make a lot of sense to me. Maybe it&#8217;s because I was looking for something in the way of a concrete description of a &#8220;cashless society&#8221;. There was talk about &#8220;responsibility&#8221; being the real basis of economic activity anyway, which is reminiscent of talk last decade about &#8220;reputational economies&#8221; whereby your prosperity depends on what people think of you (and their willingness to trust you by giving you money).</p>
<p>&#8220;Cashless&#8221; seems to have many meanings, from the mundane one of the use of electronic bookkeeping instead of pieces of paper and metal discs, to a society that dispenses with the concept of money altogether, like Ryker snottily pronouncing that he doesn&#8217;t need money in the Federation&#8217;s 24th century cashless economy.</p>
<p>What do <i>you</i> mean by &#8220;cashless society&#8221;, Rob?</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/16/a-glimpse-at-a-cashless-society/#comment-26814</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Sep 2013 04:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.net/?p=37873#comment-26814</guid>
		<description>Enterprise architects.

&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/1701d1.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enterprise architects.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/1701d1.jpg" alt="" /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/16/a-glimpse-at-a-cashless-society/#comment-26812</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Sep 2013 03:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.net/?p=37873#comment-26812</guid>
		<description>Enterprise architects?

&lt;img src=&quot;http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzvtqdSUgG1r496ex.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;.&quot; /&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enterprise architects?</p>
<p><img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzvtqdSUgG1r496ex.jpg" alt="." /></p>
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