Comments on: Gratitude https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/22/gratitude/ Tue, 07 Apr 2026 19:18:10 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/22/gratitude/#comment-26976 bowser Mon, 23 Sep 2013 16:56:11 +0000 http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=38134#comment-26976 Which was 8 or 10 orders of magnitude more serious than the Bay of Pigs. Maybe forty. And the Bay of Pigs was a failed plan from the beginning and Kennedy managed to screw it up farther. Which was 8 or 10 orders of magnitude more serious than the Bay of Pigs. Maybe forty.

And the Bay of Pigs was a failed plan from the beginning and Kennedy managed to screw it up farther.

]]> By: ER https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/22/gratitude/#comment-26973 ER Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:08:13 +0000 http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=38134#comment-26973 But JFK had the conn, and plenty of time to study the problem and make a decision. He gets the blame or the credit, it was all on his watch. He could have stopped it from happening in the first place, he could have canceled it at the last minute, or he could have backed it up with air support and boots. He did neither. He lied to those men and he abandoned them to die. It was shameful. I will grant you, the Cuban Missile Crisis was handled well. Very well. It was a triumph. But by then he had learned something. But JFK had the conn, and plenty of time to study the problem and make a decision. He gets the blame or the credit, it was all on his watch. He could have stopped it from happening in the first place, he could have canceled it at the last minute, or he could have backed it up with air support and boots. He did neither. He lied to those men and he abandoned them to die. It was shameful.

I will grant you, the Cuban Missile Crisis was handled well. Very well. It was a triumph. But by then he had learned something.

]]> By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/22/gratitude/#comment-26968 bowser Mon, 23 Sep 2013 14:52:03 +0000 http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=38134#comment-26968 Absolutely nothing. No danger of a World War, no danger of nukes. However, a number of things were operating on the Bay of Pigs. First, it had been initiated by Eisenhower, the Supreme Commander in Europe while Kennedy was an obscure lieutenant in the Pacific. Kennedy was naturally deferential to Eisenhower's military expertise. Second, Kennedy was assured by Bissel and Dulles that there would be a popular uprising against Castro. Just the opposite, the public spontaneously supported him. The Cuban refugees, just like the Iraqi refugees, spoon fed the US government pure nonsense hoping for an invasion. And three, he truly screwed it up. Changed the plan with 4 days left altering it in ways which gave it no chance of succeeding even if there was public support, which there wasn't. However embarrassing, that little sideshow was nothing compared to having the world on the line during the missile crisis. Absolutely nothing. No danger of a World War, no danger of nukes. However, a number of things were operating on the Bay of Pigs.

First, it had been initiated by Eisenhower, the Supreme Commander in Europe while Kennedy was an obscure lieutenant in the Pacific. Kennedy was naturally deferential to Eisenhower’s military expertise.

Second, Kennedy was assured by Bissel and Dulles that there would be a popular uprising against Castro. Just the opposite, the public spontaneously supported him. The Cuban refugees, just like the Iraqi refugees, spoon fed the US government pure nonsense hoping for an invasion.

And three, he truly screwed it up. Changed the plan with 4 days left altering it in ways which gave it no chance of succeeding even if there was public support, which there wasn’t.

However embarrassing, that little sideshow was nothing compared to having the world on the line during the missile crisis.

]]> By: ER https://habitablezone.com/2013/09/22/gratitude/#comment-26964 ER Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:25:09 +0000 http://www.habitablezone.com/?p=38134#comment-26964 I agree with your assessment of JFKs performance during the missile crisis, but it only makes up for his abysmal failure during the Bay of Pigs affair just a few months earlier. The whole plan was hopeless from the start: sending a 1500 man force against a 100,000 man modern army. But the exile brigade was ready to take their chances. Still, it was poorly conceived, poorly planned, poorly executed. The force was lied to and never received the military support they had been promised. Kennedy equivocated, tried to have it both ways, caved in to his hawk critics and ignored the advice of people who knew it would fail. But worst of all, he lied to those men he sent in to die. At the last minute he witheld support, including the follow up Marines they were promised. Even if the brigade had taken the beach and held it, they had no way to move into the island and exploit their victory. It was a betrayal of the highest order. It was a heroic stand by the invaders, they inflicted more casualties than they took against a vastly superior force, in both numbers and equipment. They fought in good order until the last cartridge. They were just overwhelmed by artillery, armor and air power. They never had a chance,and Kennedy must have known that from the beginning. He thought the Cuban people would rise up spontaneously against Fidel the moment the men came ashore. He was mistaken. I agree with your assessment of JFKs performance during the missile crisis, but it only makes up for his abysmal failure during the Bay of Pigs affair just a few months earlier.

The whole plan was hopeless from the start: sending a 1500 man force against a 100,000 man modern army. But the exile brigade was ready to take their chances. Still, it was poorly conceived, poorly planned, poorly executed. The force was lied to and never received the military support they had been promised. Kennedy equivocated, tried to have it both ways, caved in to his hawk critics and ignored the advice of people who knew it would fail. But worst of all, he lied to those men he sent in to die. At the last minute he witheld support, including the follow up Marines they were promised. Even if the brigade had taken the beach and held it, they had no way to move into the island and exploit their victory. It was a betrayal of the highest order.

It was a heroic stand by the invaders, they inflicted more casualties than they took against a vastly superior force, in both numbers and equipment. They fought in good order until the last cartridge. They were just overwhelmed by artillery, armor and air power. They never had a chance,and Kennedy must have known that from the beginning.

He thought the Cuban people would rise up spontaneously against Fidel the moment the men came ashore. He was mistaken.

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