Perhaps, one dark and dismal day, this will be realized.

…But, until that Come and Get it Day, I’d like to wish a very merry Christmas, and cheers to all Zonies here — as well as there.

No, but I cannot convince him of that, or anyone else who has his opinions.

Incidentally, scientists and engineers are just as capable of self-deception as anyone else.

Exactly my point. Not only that, they are capable of being rigorously logical an some questions and totally delusional on others.

And most important, we rely on the corroboration of others to justify our own conjectures. We are all, by definition, incapable of knowing we are crazy (its a corollary to Catch-22). There is no magic formula that automatically yields Truth.

So you think Johannes’ theory may be correct?

Incidentally, scientists and engineers are just as capable of self-deception as anyone else.

And that “the facts” are conclusive, inescapable, obvious, and incapable of different interpretation?

And you are convinced that constructing scenarios is limited to only one side of an argument–the other guy’s–certainly never yours.

Tom, those are the most absurd statements I have ever heard. Even Johannes would blush at getting caught saying that.

You are obviously an engineer, not a scientist.

By far, most people I deal with in this regard are completely sincere in their beliefs.

Somebody who doesn’t know the facts will sometimes just construct a scenario that works for them, usually something just absorbed from the environment/Zeitgeist in some way, but sometimes something they assemble in their own minds. These beliefs–again, quite sincere–become nearly indestructible.

I wish it were as simple as “lying.” A liar knows the real facts and believes them, he’s just trying to deliberately steer others away from them. A believer can tell you 2 and 2 is 5 and pass a lie detector test.

Try arguing physics with Johannes sometime.

“Making stuff up” is Old and Busted. The New Hotness is “inadvertently making false representations.”

It’s not like he’s all that dark to start with.

No problem.

When I hear about something interesting here (or anywhere else) my first response is to go out and find out more about it. I find researching fun, like other people enjoy crossword puzzles. I didn’t find anything at all. That was a week ago, and I forgot about it.

I didn’t bring it up here until it started becoming the core of a discussion today.

You yourself point out various plausible reasons why you might have misinterpreted it. No problem, eh?