<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Faramir&#8217;s meditation on the decline of Gondor.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://habitablezone.com/2014/08/21/faramirs-meditation-on-the-decline-of-gondor/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/08/21/faramirs-meditation-on-the-decline-of-gondor/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2026 04:50:17 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/08/21/faramirs-meditation-on-the-decline-of-gondor/#comment-31566</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2014 02:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=46821#comment-31566</guid>
		<description>A Lady of discernment, by all accounts.

Here&#039;s the thing about Elves verses Men: Elves are part of Middle Earth*, Men, in a way, are not. Tolkien describes Elves as bound to the earth, while men have a different fate outside it. But that Fate is a mystery, that even the Valar (Tolkien&#039;s angels, who sang the world into being) do not understand. 

(*Arda, actually, of which Middle Earth is just the middle bit. Fox would have called me on that distinction, hence the footnote.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Lady of discernment, by all accounts.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the thing about Elves verses Men: Elves are part of Middle Earth*, Men, in a way, are not. Tolkien describes Elves as bound to the earth, while men have a different fate outside it. But that Fate is a mystery, that even the Valar (Tolkien&#8217;s angels, who sang the world into being) do not understand. </p>
<p>(*Arda, actually, of which Middle Earth is just the middle bit. Fox would have called me on that distinction, hence the footnote.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/08/21/faramirs-meditation-on-the-decline-of-gondor/#comment-31562</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=46821#comment-31562</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a beautiful line.  

My wife, who has lately become even more appreciative of Tolkien than I have, read your remarks with special interest and excitement, saying she had arrived at many of the same conclusions that you have.

I&#039;m starting to see Tolkien in much the same way I view Evelyn Waugh.  I recognize the fierce talent and insight, but I am suspicious of the nostalgia for a simpler, quieter time.  Except for the (relatively brief) horrors of trench warfare, Tolkein still lived the sheltered life of an Oxford Don, lost in his ancient languages and his alternate universe and imaginary history. By the time Tolkien was born the Industrial Revolution had been blighting the English Landscape for almost a century, and Britain&#039;s idyllic pastoral past was more carefully reconstructed myth than remembered history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a beautiful line.  </p>
<p>My wife, who has lately become even more appreciative of Tolkien than I have, read your remarks with special interest and excitement, saying she had arrived at many of the same conclusions that you have.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m starting to see Tolkien in much the same way I view Evelyn Waugh.  I recognize the fierce talent and insight, but I am suspicious of the nostalgia for a simpler, quieter time.  Except for the (relatively brief) horrors of trench warfare, Tolkein still lived the sheltered life of an Oxford Don, lost in his ancient languages and his alternate universe and imaginary history. By the time Tolkien was born the Industrial Revolution had been blighting the English Landscape for almost a century, and Britain&#8217;s idyllic pastoral past was more carefully reconstructed myth than remembered history.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/08/21/faramirs-meditation-on-the-decline-of-gondor/#comment-31558</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 05:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=46821#comment-31558</guid>
		<description>Faramir&#039;s statement is nearly identical to a paragraph in the Silmarillion, in the Akallabeth, which is the story of the rise and fall of Numenor in the second age of Middle Earth. They were Aragorn&#039;s ancestors, who were granted extended life spans and a swanky island for their valiant efforts in the wars of the first age. It&#039;s a long story, but basically they all descended from Elrond&#039;s brother, so Aragorn is Elrond&#039;s nephew, several hundred generations removed...

Anyway, the people of Numenor, despite living several hundred years and having a sweet island and all kinds of technology, are disenchanted because they don&#039;t live forever, like the elves. Sauron shows up and exploits those feelings, driving them to ruin.

What happened in Gondor was just an echo of the path their ancestors took.

So, was Tolkien anti-science? Not surprisingly, much has been written on this very topic. Most of these discussions focus on the corruption of the Shire during the war of the ring, the smoke stacks and the mill and the fouling of the Brandywine River. Claims are made that this represents the experiences of Tolkien&#039;s childhood and his experience during WWI.

However, Tolkien&#039;s world is full of technologic achievements. Feanor, especially, who created the Simarils and the palantir, is famous not only for his skill but his arrogance, which lead to his, and many other&#039;s, tragic ends.

The elves forged the rings of power in a kick-ass display of technology, but since Sauron was their consultant, things went wrong.

I think that Tolkien&#039;s view of science and technology (or magic) was that it can be used for good or evil. When tech followed and enhanced nature, that was fine. But when it was used to change what was ordained, trouble ensued. What got the people of Numenor in trouble was that despite having very long lives, they still died. Death was the natural order, actually described as a gift from God. But that wasn&#039;t good enough for them, they wanted the eternal sadness of the elves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Faramir&#8217;s statement is nearly identical to a paragraph in the Silmarillion, in the Akallabeth, which is the story of the rise and fall of Numenor in the second age of Middle Earth. They were Aragorn&#8217;s ancestors, who were granted extended life spans and a swanky island for their valiant efforts in the wars of the first age. It&#8217;s a long story, but basically they all descended from Elrond&#8217;s brother, so Aragorn is Elrond&#8217;s nephew, several hundred generations removed&#8230;</p>
<p>Anyway, the people of Numenor, despite living several hundred years and having a sweet island and all kinds of technology, are disenchanted because they don&#8217;t live forever, like the elves. Sauron shows up and exploits those feelings, driving them to ruin.</p>
<p>What happened in Gondor was just an echo of the path their ancestors took.</p>
<p>So, was Tolkien anti-science? Not surprisingly, much has been written on this very topic. Most of these discussions focus on the corruption of the Shire during the war of the ring, the smoke stacks and the mill and the fouling of the Brandywine River. Claims are made that this represents the experiences of Tolkien&#8217;s childhood and his experience during WWI.</p>
<p>However, Tolkien&#8217;s world is full of technologic achievements. Feanor, especially, who created the Simarils and the palantir, is famous not only for his skill but his arrogance, which lead to his, and many other&#8217;s, tragic ends.</p>
<p>The elves forged the rings of power in a kick-ass display of technology, but since Sauron was their consultant, things went wrong.</p>
<p>I think that Tolkien&#8217;s view of science and technology (or magic) was that it can be used for good or evil. When tech followed and enhanced nature, that was fine. But when it was used to change what was ordained, trouble ensued. What got the people of Numenor in trouble was that despite having very long lives, they still died. Death was the natural order, actually described as a gift from God. But that wasn&#8217;t good enough for them, they wanted the eternal sadness of the elves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
