I find it puzzling that you withhold from others the same advantage. If there is any disagreement between Bowser and others, Bowser is the perp and the others are innocent, helpless victims. (Amendment: Well, except for Ed Nelson. End of amendment.) “Atlas” isn’t assumed, it is thrust upon one.

I trust you to call ‘em as you see ‘em, honestly, impartially. I just think you have monochromatic vision.

We’re already on a Yea Tom! theme, so I won’t belabor it. But (I keep doing that, don’t I?) what makes Tom a plus in a discussion community is that he’s a consummate debater who stepped up to the challenge of defending all of Conservadom. And ultimately that was too much for any human to bear. Note that even Fox News doesn’t have an all-purpose commentator, it employs dozens of specialists to do the arguing. Thus my “wishbone” analogy in an earlier post. Or Atlas shrugged, take your pick.

Lastly, you claim a role in Tom leaving. Well I think most of us can think of something we did to contribute. Don’t you try to go Atlas on us, bowser. Sure, I have a vague recollection of something egregious you posted some time ago; but I trust that when the time comes you’ll roll over on your back and present your throat, and the rift will be healed. Ask forgiveness.

Mostly, its because we were brought up that way; its how we were taught at home, or what we learned in school, or what was cool among our circle of friends during our formative years, or we adopted the opinion of a person or authority that we respected and spoke to us in a compelling way.

We also tend to vote with our wallet. We are more likely to view favorably those policies and ideologies we feel would benefit us personally. What’s good for me must therefore be good for the country; and I don’t mean this in a grasping, self-serving way, its just that even honest men tend to be more critical of what they fear, and more accepting of what they desire. Likewise, we may remember some long-ago insult or injustice and have conflated it with the philosophy of the individual associated with that event.

And lastly, there is our reason. We add up all we know and all we’ve learned and try to make sense of it by devising a hypothesis which fits the facts as best we see them. We all like to think of ourselves as rational, but we can’t help but have our prejudices color our analysis. We tend to weigh evidence that supports our preconceptions differently than evidence which contradicts them.

This is why the Law and Science have these complex procedures and methodologies to process data and lead to conclusions–because we simply cannot trust the human mind, no matter how clever or how fair, to arrive at a correct evaluation of the data.. And even then, the scientists and the judges still screw up. No system is foolproof.

But regardless of whether we are right or wrong, there are still ways to detect bullshit. It doesn’t necessarily mean the bullshitter is wrong all the time, or even on this one question, but it should still put you on warning.

Beware the guy who tells you you’re wrong because you’re stupid, deluded, or have fooled yourself for emotional or sentimental reasons. Or look out for the guy who tells you you’re wrong because you are a criminal, and simply want an excuse to steal from others (especially from him) or because you’re lazy and don’t want to work for anything, and expect it all to be handed to you on a silver platter. (I love the “silver platter” line; me, I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth.)

And beware of the conspiracy, the plot, the evil mastermind pulling strings in the background, puppet masters trying to take over the world. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, shit sometimes just happens, and great tragedies often arise over simple misunderstandings. When I hear anything that sounds even remotely like a conspiracy theory, my BS meter is pegged. Yes, there is great evil in the world, but not everything bad that happens comes from evil, and even the most evil among us don’t believe they are.

Having said that, I agree there is a dynamic operating which I don’t completely understand. It trapped RobVG, too.

That is that it is possible for someone to see some merit in, for instance, the NRA position on some issue. That person might express lukewarm support. The return fire is usually so intense that the person is forced into a stronger position, and then usually has to expand that to include more of the NRA agenda. Pretty soon what was once a mild disagreement has become a completely polarized situation. I believe that’s what has happened with RobVG a number of times. A reasonable position which those who disagree vilify and crowd the holder into a corner from which there is no choice but to fight out. I will admit to doing that. My only defense is that I have just now seen it as I write.

TB, on the other hand, cheerfully advocated the most extreme positions and invited controversy. I’m reminded of his sincere belief that the government was forcing energy efficient light bulbs upon the people AT GUNPOINT. I did not make that up. And it is colorful, even if it is an extreme way to think about it. In my opinion.

But TB is a plus for any group, well, maybe not some but at least for here and I regret he is not posting anymore. I have mixed feelings about my role in that, am not going into it right now.

What you did there was balance the entire parallel universe of conservatism on Tom’s shoulders, like Atlas straining under the weight of the Earth, and (wait for it), maybe Atlas shrugged.

Ahem. Sorry.

Tom made that mistake too: He tried to represent all of conservatism at the Zone, but I think in the long run he bit off more than he could chew. We’ve seen the right’s become increasingly incoherent, especially since we elected a black President, and that saddled Tom with trying to defend and reconcile some pretty crazy shit across a very broad spectrum. He may have felt like the wishbone at Thanksgiving.

We know that Tom respects and values science above almost all else. I would imagine that the cognitive dissonance between his scientific and political natures must have become an incredible strain, most visibly of course on the subject of climate change.

So I wonder if maybe Tom is reluctant to come back because he’s afraid he’ll have to take all the heat for all of conservatism once again, and be called on the carpet over things like global warming. He’d certainly get that idea from reading your post, bowser, but I hope you’re not arguing that Tom should keep away. Why break up the band? We’ve been playing together for fifteen years, through good times and bad. Let’s keep playing.

You asked “Is there a future for the Zone? Depends on what you want to see”. When I look at this Community page, what I see is something that worked: A community formed here. Look at the names on the page, and you see that a substantial part of the community still exists.

You don’t have to live here fulltime. People continue to be a part of the community, while staying away for long periods…but they come back, to this page, to keep up on what’s going on with their old Zone friends. Kind of the Zone’s “wall”, you might say. For that alone I’ll keep it on the air as long as I live.

In that vein, Tom’s still part of the community. He came back briefly when bowser was ill. But he’s mostly absent, and it may surprise you to know that I miss him too, and don’t applaud his absence. Well, to be honest, in most ways except the political ways. I have to say that in the last few years, trying to discuss politics with Tom was like arguing with voicemail. But maybe, and this is just a surmise, maybe he realizes that, and maybe he’s just feeling a little embarrassed. Could be. Stranger things have happened. If so, I’d say he’s worried overmuch. I guess we’ll just have to keep writing stuff like this, knowing he’s lurking, until he’s convinced and comes back.

I believe Tom left because his political positions completely collapsed and he chose not to admit it. His support of globalization left him essentially unemployed and keeping house. He was strongly opposed to Unions, and yet he lived off of wages negotiated by a Union, had health insurance because it was negotiated by a Union, took vacations with funds negotiated by a Union. He didn’t think the government should interfere with any rights of employers, none, and yet his handicapped wife could work only because those laws required the employer to accommodate her. As they should have.

Rather than concede that some things are not all bad, that there are benefits and times when Unions or the government is needed, he left.

Tom never did admit GWB lied, even after GWB admitted it. Never could admit the US lost the war in Iraq, or that the Saudi’s funded the attack on WTC. He couldn’t explain why he supported such a lousy health system, expensive and poorly performing. And so on. (He even believed the Vietnam war was one of Soviet expansion rather than a civil war. True, the Soviets were delighted to see the Americans there, but they were not trying to occupy Vietnam.)

I like the guy, a lot, would love to have him for a neighbor and wish he was able to be a bit flexible and admit when he made a mistake and when he had chosen a position which he could in good conscience follow. Both. Because he’s an interesting guy who could make superb contributions when he wasn’t blinded by the dark.

He didn’t have to leave. On the other hand, he probably would have had to admit that there was a middle ground, and that his life was an example.

Arf

Rob, you are, as you’ve always been, very kind. I always took any comparison between us as a great compliment, even when it was “if mcfly had one-tenth of Rob’s wit, he’d be a better man.”

There’s much to love about Bowser, though lately I’ve been marveling at how his mellowing hasn’t at all diminished his passion. Remember how he used to fly through here like a fighter jet, all cannons ablaze? It was a sight to behold–doubly so if you found yourself among the “targets for today.” Nowadays, the pilot has retired, it seems, and under his flight jacket we find the dedicated humanist that was always there.

When I get a chance I’ll reply to your post and put in my 2cents about conservatives.

Please check the date and then read the post. The entire post, as it starts out on a rather difficult note.

Arf