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	<title>Comments on: Tilapia is Worse For You Than Bacon . . .</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/09/10/tilapia-is-worse-for-you-than-bacon/</link>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/09/10/tilapia-is-worse-for-you-than-bacon/#comment-31851</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2014 22:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47175#comment-31851</guid>
		<description>We cheerfully eat plants which have been fertilized with manure.  Why not let some animal process the manure?

I don&#039;t know the answer to that, and though I may be hypocritical I am still disgusted by the idea of raising fish on manure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We cheerfully eat plants which have been fertilized with manure.  Why not let some animal process the manure?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know the answer to that, and though I may be hypocritical I am still disgusted by the idea of raising fish on manure.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/09/10/tilapia-is-worse-for-you-than-bacon/#comment-31840</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2014 00:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47175#comment-31840</guid>
		<description>Great minds run on the same track.

And fools think alike.  Did the same thing, but would also throw in some combination of tuna fish, cheese, canned mushrooms, as well as eggs.

Relatively inexpensive, great texture, I loved it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great minds run on the same track.</p>
<p>And fools think alike.  Did the same thing, but would also throw in some combination of tuna fish, cheese, canned mushrooms, as well as eggs.</p>
<p>Relatively inexpensive, great texture, I loved it.</p>
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		<title>By: DanS</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/09/10/tilapia-is-worse-for-you-than-bacon/#comment-31838</link>
		<dc:creator>DanS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47175#comment-31838</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just on their mailing list, b.  I get an interesting story from them and simply pass it on.  Also a lot of healthy recipes, some of them even surprising, but not for reasons one might think.  I got one a few weeks ago involving Ramon noodles, unsalted seasonings and various veggies.  My surprise was that the meal was supposed to be someone&#039;s new idea, but was something I had been doing for approx. 15 years.  Ramon noodles are quick and easy, the package costs pennies, the added &quot;flavor seasoning mix&quot; is easily disposed of, and the finished product is quite tasty.  I&#039;ll even toss in a couple eggs for texture -- and flavor.

Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just on their mailing list, b.  I get an interesting story from them and simply pass it on.  Also a lot of healthy recipes, some of them even surprising, but not for reasons one might think.  I got one a few weeks ago involving Ramon noodles, unsalted seasonings and various veggies.  My surprise was that the meal was supposed to be someone&#8217;s new idea, but was something I had been doing for approx. 15 years.  Ramon noodles are quick and easy, the package costs pennies, the added &#8220;flavor seasoning mix&#8221; is easily disposed of, and the finished product is quite tasty.  I&#8217;ll even toss in a couple eggs for texture &#8212; and flavor.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/09/10/tilapia-is-worse-for-you-than-bacon/#comment-31815</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2014 05:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47175#comment-31815</guid>
		<description>I have no doubt what you say is true.  None at all.  And there&#039;s an interesting side note.

Chicken and pig manure are highly valued as fertilizers.  Therefore to feed it to fish presupposes that fish are more efficient at converting them to human food than plants are.  And that the financial gains are better feeding fish than plants.

Kind of interesting.  Still disgusting.

By the way, one of the more valued organic fertilizers in the US is ground-up chicken feathers.  Yep, just the feathers, ground up to a fine powder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no doubt what you say is true.  None at all.  And there&#8217;s an interesting side note.</p>
<p>Chicken and pig manure are highly valued as fertilizers.  Therefore to feed it to fish presupposes that fish are more efficient at converting them to human food than plants are.  And that the financial gains are better feeding fish than plants.</p>
<p>Kind of interesting.  Still disgusting.</p>
<p>By the way, one of the more valued organic fertilizers in the US is ground-up chicken feathers.  Yep, just the feathers, ground up to a fine powder.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/09/10/tilapia-is-worse-for-you-than-bacon/#comment-31732</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47175#comment-31732</guid>
		<description>Or wild-caught fish for that matter.

The problem comes with the economic pressures to cut corners and increase profits, and this comes inevitably when unregulated competition gangs up on a renewable but finite natural resource.  Any natural system can be harvested indefinitely for surplus production if it is done wisely, and if the resource is properly managed.  The very fact your fish farm feels the need to publicize their good management practices tells me the problem is out there and they are getting heat for it.  And who monitors and regulates Chilean fish farms? That&#039;s why its so cheap we can afford to put it on jets and fly it to US markets.

If we make it a point to limit fish catches by size, place and season, to wait till after they breed, and to relax harvesting when stocks are threatened, we can have healthy fresh seafood forever, but it will cost us more. But this means government marine science and regulation (boo, hiss!).
If we want lots of cheap fish we can only do it for a while, until the fishery collapses. The market only wants as much fish as cheaply as possible.  Sound management practices can only come from human intervention, not from the market.

Private fishing boat owner-operators recognize their long-term livelihood depends on preserving the resource and sacrificing short term profits for long term viability. OTOH, absentee corporate ownership, desperate to pay off their initial investment as quickly as possible and continue increasing profits, does not give a shit. When the fish run out they will invest in something else. They would go fishing with dynamite if they thought they could make more money at it.  That&#039;s how they fished for abalone in California--drag trawls across the bottom  and pick out those delicious shellfish from everything else that came up in the nets.  Meanwhile, the kelp beds that supported the abalone to begin with were devastated,  it would take them years to recover and become productive again.  And not just abalone suffered, everything else that lived in the kelp died too.  They call it &quot;by-catch&quot;, as if it was just worthless trash.

The key to fisheries management is studying the life cycle of each species and harvesting it only when it is least vulnerable, protecting the environment and by-catch and limiting catches to what that population can tolerate.  But the response of those with no family or traditional stake in the fishery, is to just get bigger boats, go farther out, and stay there till the holds are filled.  And when the fish disappear, switch to another species, or move to another part of the sea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or wild-caught fish for that matter.</p>
<p>The problem comes with the economic pressures to cut corners and increase profits, and this comes inevitably when unregulated competition gangs up on a renewable but finite natural resource.  Any natural system can be harvested indefinitely for surplus production if it is done wisely, and if the resource is properly managed.  The very fact your fish farm feels the need to publicize their good management practices tells me the problem is out there and they are getting heat for it.  And who monitors and regulates Chilean fish farms? That&#8217;s why its so cheap we can afford to put it on jets and fly it to US markets.</p>
<p>If we make it a point to limit fish catches by size, place and season, to wait till after they breed, and to relax harvesting when stocks are threatened, we can have healthy fresh seafood forever, but it will cost us more. But this means government marine science and regulation (boo, hiss!).<br />
If we want lots of cheap fish we can only do it for a while, until the fishery collapses. The market only wants as much fish as cheaply as possible.  Sound management practices can only come from human intervention, not from the market.</p>
<p>Private fishing boat owner-operators recognize their long-term livelihood depends on preserving the resource and sacrificing short term profits for long term viability. OTOH, absentee corporate ownership, desperate to pay off their initial investment as quickly as possible and continue increasing profits, does not give a shit. When the fish run out they will invest in something else. They would go fishing with dynamite if they thought they could make more money at it.  That&#8217;s how they fished for abalone in California&#8211;drag trawls across the bottom  and pick out those delicious shellfish from everything else that came up in the nets.  Meanwhile, the kelp beds that supported the abalone to begin with were devastated,  it would take them years to recover and become productive again.  And not just abalone suffered, everything else that lived in the kelp died too.  They call it &#8220;by-catch&#8221;, as if it was just worthless trash.</p>
<p>The key to fisheries management is studying the life cycle of each species and harvesting it only when it is least vulnerable, protecting the environment and by-catch and limiting catches to what that population can tolerate.  But the response of those with no family or traditional stake in the fishery, is to just get bigger boats, go farther out, and stay there till the holds are filled.  And when the fish disappear, switch to another species, or move to another part of the sea.</p>
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		<title>By: DanS</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/09/10/tilapia-is-worse-for-you-than-bacon/#comment-31730</link>
		<dc:creator>DanS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47175#comment-31730</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a fairly successful Columbus Mom-n-Pop Shop (Nick’s Market) in a not-so-well-to-do neighborhood a bit west of my location -- relatively speaking.  Not a bad little place.  Anyway, I suggested Wild-Caught Pacific Salmon to their choice of the Farmed Atlantic Salmon.  Their supplier informed them it was simply too difficult a task processing and shipping Wild Caught, something Ocean Eclipse, Sea Queen, and even Wal-Mart brands seem to handle just fine.

Apparently, ER, not all farms are equal...

&quot;All our farms use cameras to monitor the bottom of the pens to be sure excess feed is not polluting the water (and to control costs of feed too).  On soft bottoms (mud/sand/shell), soil samples are taken at six different times during the grow-out period to a distance of 30 meters from the edge of the pens.&quot;

From &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wegmans.com/blog/2013/09/farmed-salmon/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wegmans.com&lt;/a&gt;.

...or so they claim to protect their overall investment, but there are enough hellishly bad fish-farmers to raise environmental concerns.

Make no mistake; I remain a Wild Caught eater of High-Krill-Intake, Pacific salmon.  Still bad for the fish population, but good for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a fairly successful Columbus Mom-n-Pop Shop (Nick’s Market) in a not-so-well-to-do neighborhood a bit west of my location &#8212; relatively speaking.  Not a bad little place.  Anyway, I suggested Wild-Caught Pacific Salmon to their choice of the Farmed Atlantic Salmon.  Their supplier informed them it was simply too difficult a task processing and shipping Wild Caught, something Ocean Eclipse, Sea Queen, and even Wal-Mart brands seem to handle just fine.</p>
<p>Apparently, ER, not all farms are equal&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;All our farms use cameras to monitor the bottom of the pens to be sure excess feed is not polluting the water (and to control costs of feed too).  On soft bottoms (mud/sand/shell), soil samples are taken at six different times during the grow-out period to a distance of 30 meters from the edge of the pens.&#8221;</p>
<p>From <a href="http://www.wegmans.com/blog/2013/09/farmed-salmon/" rel="nofollow">Wegmans.com</a>.</p>
<p>&#8230;or so they claim to protect their overall investment, but there are enough hellishly bad fish-farmers to raise environmental concerns.</p>
<p>Make no mistake; I remain a Wild Caught eater of High-Krill-Intake, Pacific salmon.  Still bad for the fish population, but good for me.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/09/10/tilapia-is-worse-for-you-than-bacon/#comment-31718</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2014 02:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47175#comment-31718</guid>
		<description>...fish farming, once considered a way to &quot;save the ocean environment&quot; is now proving to be environmentally destructive on a mass scale.  The fish pens where fish are trapped and fed generate enormous amounts of fish droppings and unconsumed feed and medicines which carpet the bottoms of the shallow protected bays where these farms are located.

The resulting waste accumulates on the bay bottoms and rots, killing natural life in the area and eventually leading to an anaerobic, rotting goo where nothing can live.  When this poison eventually starts affecting fish production at the surface, the pens are simply moved a few miles away to pollute some other cove.

Much of our seafood now comes from fish farms in the Southern Hemisphere, particularly in the fiords of Southern Chile and Patagonia.  This habitat, a cold water continental west coast temperate mountain rainforest/kelp forest similar to the Pacific coasts of Canada and Alaska ,is one of the richest marine environments on the planet, and it is systematically being poisoned to provide cheap fish for the tables of the First World.

This kind of destruction is not likely to come to N America, it would never be allowed here, but we have found a way to export our pollution overseas.  Also, the fish meal used to feed the captive fish comes from offshore, and it takes about 3 pounds of pelagic fish to produce one pound of farm salmon, so the offshore fish stocks are being plundered too.

As Bowser says, its just plain disgusting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;fish farming, once considered a way to &#8220;save the ocean environment&#8221; is now proving to be environmentally destructive on a mass scale.  The fish pens where fish are trapped and fed generate enormous amounts of fish droppings and unconsumed feed and medicines which carpet the bottoms of the shallow protected bays where these farms are located.</p>
<p>The resulting waste accumulates on the bay bottoms and rots, killing natural life in the area and eventually leading to an anaerobic, rotting goo where nothing can live.  When this poison eventually starts affecting fish production at the surface, the pens are simply moved a few miles away to pollute some other cove.</p>
<p>Much of our seafood now comes from fish farms in the Southern Hemisphere, particularly in the fiords of Southern Chile and Patagonia.  This habitat, a cold water continental west coast temperate mountain rainforest/kelp forest similar to the Pacific coasts of Canada and Alaska ,is one of the richest marine environments on the planet, and it is systematically being poisoned to provide cheap fish for the tables of the First World.</p>
<p>This kind of destruction is not likely to come to N America, it would never be allowed here, but we have found a way to export our pollution overseas.  Also, the fish meal used to feed the captive fish comes from offshore, and it takes about 3 pounds of pelagic fish to produce one pound of farm salmon, so the offshore fish stocks are being plundered too.</p>
<p>As Bowser says, its just plain disgusting.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2014/09/10/tilapia-is-worse-for-you-than-bacon/#comment-31711</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2014 22:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47175#comment-31711</guid>
		<description>Please don&#039;t misunderstand me, I&#039;d eat the things if I were starving.  But to mainly raise them on shit for food is terrible.

I have to say I&#039;ve never eaten any, finding more familiar fish readily available.  And now I hope I never will eat any.  There should be some label requirement.

On the other hand, if the chickenshit were used to fertilize a grain and that grain were fed to the fish, I&#039;d think that&#039;s OK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please don&#8217;t misunderstand me, I&#8217;d eat the things if I were starving.  But to mainly raise them on shit for food is terrible.</p>
<p>I have to say I&#8217;ve never eaten any, finding more familiar fish readily available.  And now I hope I never will eat any.  There should be some label requirement.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if the chickenshit were used to fertilize a grain and that grain were fed to the fish, I&#8217;d think that&#8217;s OK.</p>
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