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	<title>Comments on: Approximating Armageddon, the apocryphal Apocalypse</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/</link>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/#comment-32304</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=48868#comment-32304</guid>
		<description>&#039;Cause I agree with what you wrote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Cause I agree with what you wrote.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/#comment-32303</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=48868#comment-32303</guid>
		<description>You talkin&#039; to ME? (n/t)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You talkin&#8217; to ME? (n/t)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/#comment-32301</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2015 01:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Can I hear an &quot;Amen?&quot;   (n/t)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I hear an &#8220;Amen?&#8221;   (n/t)</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/#comment-32300</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2015 00:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=48868#comment-32300</guid>
		<description>Remember in Eco&#039;s &quot;The Name of the Rose&quot; the monks had gathered from all over Europe to debate the weighty theological question of whether or not Christ owned his own clothes?

I&#039;m sick of these people.  I&#039;m supposed to show them &quot;respect&quot;, just because they go all dreamy-eyed and reverent on me, and celestial choirs sing in the background while they contemplate how I will writhe in hell for all eternity because I can&#039;t sign on to their bullshit.  They all demand I kiss god&#039;s ass, and get very upset when I point out that&#039;s all they&#039;re doing; trading their dignity for salvation.  

All religions eventually devolve to this final state of sycophancy and spiritual fellatio.  And I hope our Christian and Jewish friends don&#039;t get too upset if I point out its not just the Muslims that do this, they all do.

And, while we&#039;re on the subject, I hope our Republican friends get their head out of their ass long enough to realize that there are very strong&lt;strong&gt; PRACTICAL&lt;/strong&gt;, military and political, reasons for not turning our domestic dialog about ISIS into a Christian harangue against Mohamed. Not only are most American Muslims loyal citizens, we need world Islam as an ally, just like we once needed the Communists to defeat the Nazis. That means you, Rudy.  Can&#039;t you cretins stop hating long enough to think?

I&#039;m not absolutely sure there is no god. No one can say that for certain. Maybe there is.  But I am absolutely certain that if he does exist, this kind of self-debasing groveling is hateful in his eyes and merits a one-way ticket straight to hell.

Its not just that mindless faith is stupid.  Its also in bad taste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember in Eco&#8217;s &#8220;The Name of the Rose&#8221; the monks had gathered from all over Europe to debate the weighty theological question of whether or not Christ owned his own clothes?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sick of these people.  I&#8217;m supposed to show them &#8220;respect&#8221;, just because they go all dreamy-eyed and reverent on me, and celestial choirs sing in the background while they contemplate how I will writhe in hell for all eternity because I can&#8217;t sign on to their bullshit.  They all demand I kiss god&#8217;s ass, and get very upset when I point out that&#8217;s all they&#8217;re doing; trading their dignity for salvation.  </p>
<p>All religions eventually devolve to this final state of sycophancy and spiritual fellatio.  And I hope our Christian and Jewish friends don&#8217;t get too upset if I point out its not just the Muslims that do this, they all do.</p>
<p>And, while we&#8217;re on the subject, I hope our Republican friends get their head out of their ass long enough to realize that there are very strong<strong> PRACTICAL</strong>, military and political, reasons for not turning our domestic dialog about ISIS into a Christian harangue against Mohamed. Not only are most American Muslims loyal citizens, we need world Islam as an ally, just like we once needed the Communists to defeat the Nazis. That means you, Rudy.  Can&#8217;t you cretins stop hating long enough to think?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not absolutely sure there is no god. No one can say that for certain. Maybe there is.  But I am absolutely certain that if he does exist, this kind of self-debasing groveling is hateful in his eyes and merits a one-way ticket straight to hell.</p>
<p>Its not just that mindless faith is stupid.  Its also in bad taste.</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/#comment-32297</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=48868#comment-32297</guid>
		<description>Even more than academic politics, religious fractionalism is more vicious as the stakes get smaller. 

This was a thing. A Big Theologic Thing: &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triclavianism&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Triclavianism&lt;/a&gt; Seriously? Arguments about how many nails were used to crucify Christ? 

Sigh. 

&quot;What fools these mortals...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even more than academic politics, religious fractionalism is more vicious as the stakes get smaller. </p>
<p>This was a thing. A Big Theologic Thing: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triclavianism" rel="nofollow">Triclavianism</a> Seriously? Arguments about how many nails were used to crucify Christ? </p>
<p>Sigh. </p>
<p>&#8220;What fools these mortals&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/#comment-32296</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=48868#comment-32296</guid>
		<description>Its a hoot how the religious mentality is so insistent on dogma and doctrine and precise definition and strict adherence to sacred texts, yet all religions are fractured and bifurcated by schism and division.  Don&#039;t they appreciate the irony of this?  Its impossible for a thinking person to contemplate a diagram like that without laughing out loud.   How can people be so foolish?  And how can such fools be so dangerous?

I can understand spirituality, I actually consider myself a spiritual person, but for me the essence of spirituality is the understanding of the vastness of the question, the wonder, the mystery of it all, the universe is unknowable, yet beautiful.  These people (and Muslims aren&#039;t the only fools we&#039;re talking about here, similar diagrams could be constructed around all the world&#039;s religions) aren&#039;t interested in questions or answers.  They already know it all.

Religion, ideology, its all the same.  Concentrated and distilled self-delusion. I have no use for those people. I have nothing but contempt for them and their faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its a hoot how the religious mentality is so insistent on dogma and doctrine and precise definition and strict adherence to sacred texts, yet all religions are fractured and bifurcated by schism and division.  Don&#8217;t they appreciate the irony of this?  Its impossible for a thinking person to contemplate a diagram like that without laughing out loud.   How can people be so foolish?  And how can such fools be so dangerous?</p>
<p>I can understand spirituality, I actually consider myself a spiritual person, but for me the essence of spirituality is the understanding of the vastness of the question, the wonder, the mystery of it all, the universe is unknowable, yet beautiful.  These people (and Muslims aren&#8217;t the only fools we&#8217;re talking about here, similar diagrams could be constructed around all the world&#8217;s religions) aren&#8217;t interested in questions or answers.  They already know it all.</p>
<p>Religion, ideology, its all the same.  Concentrated and distilled self-delusion. I have no use for those people. I have nothing but contempt for them and their faith.</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/#comment-32295</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 22:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=48868#comment-32295</guid>
		<description>I found it informative. But it is difficult to discover what is really going in the fundamentalist religious mind and culture while I try to avoid both in my personal evolution. 

The apocalyptic mind sees utopia through dystopia and a supernatural intervention. It seems that they want to prove the existence of God by forcing prophesy&#039;s hand. God&#039;s book says he&#039;ll show up when X happens, so lets go ahead and make X happen, and hope he shows up as promised and rescue us from our stupidity. Show us your cards, God. In the meantime, so much is killed, destroyed, wasted. 

Imagine a world where the New Testament ended not with a tale of destruction but of construction. An edict to explore, construct, cooperate? That we should get our act together and find God out in the universe. Instead of being told he&#039;d drop in and fix our problems once we really got really, really good at killing each other. 

Fuck the final battle, we&#039;ve got better things to do.  


PS:
I have found this infographic helpful in understanding the sects of Islam, &#039;cause I&#039;m always getting them confused:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/islamic-sects/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/islamic-sects/&lt;/a&gt;

(minor edits have occurred to this comment)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found it informative. But it is difficult to discover what is really going in the fundamentalist religious mind and culture while I try to avoid both in my personal evolution. </p>
<p>The apocalyptic mind sees utopia through dystopia and a supernatural intervention. It seems that they want to prove the existence of God by forcing prophesy&#8217;s hand. God&#8217;s book says he&#8217;ll show up when X happens, so lets go ahead and make X happen, and hope he shows up as promised and rescue us from our stupidity. Show us your cards, God. In the meantime, so much is killed, destroyed, wasted. </p>
<p>Imagine a world where the New Testament ended not with a tale of destruction but of construction. An edict to explore, construct, cooperate? That we should get our act together and find God out in the universe. Instead of being told he&#8217;d drop in and fix our problems once we really got really, really good at killing each other. </p>
<p>Fuck the final battle, we&#8217;ve got better things to do.  </p>
<p>PS:<br />
I have found this infographic helpful in understanding the sects of Islam, &#8217;cause I&#8217;m always getting them confused:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/islamic-sects/" rel="nofollow">http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/islamic-sects/</a></p>
<p>(minor edits have occurred to this comment)</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/#comment-32294</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Its uncanny how similar the apocalyptic mythologies and End Time fantasies of both Islam and Christianity are to one another.  Its almost as if god told both sides the same story, and made them the same promises.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its uncanny how similar the apocalyptic mythologies and End Time fantasies of both Islam and Christianity are to one another.  Its almost as if god told both sides the same story, and made them the same promises.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/#comment-32292</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=48868#comment-32292</guid>
		<description>But operationally, the command structure and leadership is made up of Sunni thugs from the secular Saddam regime who lost their positions of privilege and patronage when the Shiite majority in Iraq gained power (backed by Iran and led by the puppet Maliki). ISIS is a result of the fall of Saddam, it is an Iraqi phenomenon, precipitated by our regime change policy in that country.  There is no way any American policy maker could have anticipated the sequence of events that resulted from our invasion and occupation, but that&#039;s the whole point isn&#039;t it?  We don&#039;t know what we&#039;re doing over there, or at least, we didn&#039;t in 2003. And it is no coincidence that once the front against Assad in Syria stabilized, ISIS immediately turned its attention to the Sunni areas of Northern and Western Iraq--it is where their main interests and support lie. They even call themselves the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

The success of ISIS/ISIL has inspired other apocalyptic Islamists in other parts of the Muslim world, and the movement has metastasized, but these splinter groups are coat-tailing on ISIS&#039; reputation, they were not deliberately and systematically created by ISIS. 

Come to think of it, the fundamentalist theme that runs through middle eastern politics (both Sunni and Shia) is analogous to the fundamentalist Christian core lodged in American Conservative thought.  Evangelical fanaticism does not cause, or control, Right wing politics in the USA, but it plays a major role in it. In fact, you really can&#039;t understand one without the other.  Are there Christians who are not fundamentalists? Sure. Christians who are not Conservative? Certainly. Conservative Christians who are not fundamentalists?  Of course there are.  There are even Conservative Jews, Muslims and atheists, too.  But Conservatives are rather intimidated by their fundamentalists, and are not likely to stand up to them. Not only are they afraid of them, they need them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But operationally, the command structure and leadership is made up of Sunni thugs from the secular Saddam regime who lost their positions of privilege and patronage when the Shiite majority in Iraq gained power (backed by Iran and led by the puppet Maliki). ISIS is a result of the fall of Saddam, it is an Iraqi phenomenon, precipitated by our regime change policy in that country.  There is no way any American policy maker could have anticipated the sequence of events that resulted from our invasion and occupation, but that&#8217;s the whole point isn&#8217;t it?  We don&#8217;t know what we&#8217;re doing over there, or at least, we didn&#8217;t in 2003. And it is no coincidence that once the front against Assad in Syria stabilized, ISIS immediately turned its attention to the Sunni areas of Northern and Western Iraq&#8211;it is where their main interests and support lie. They even call themselves the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.</p>
<p>The success of ISIS/ISIL has inspired other apocalyptic Islamists in other parts of the Muslim world, and the movement has metastasized, but these splinter groups are coat-tailing on ISIS&#8217; reputation, they were not deliberately and systematically created by ISIS. </p>
<p>Come to think of it, the fundamentalist theme that runs through middle eastern politics (both Sunni and Shia) is analogous to the fundamentalist Christian core lodged in American Conservative thought.  Evangelical fanaticism does not cause, or control, Right wing politics in the USA, but it plays a major role in it. In fact, you really can&#8217;t understand one without the other.  Are there Christians who are not fundamentalists? Sure. Christians who are not Conservative? Certainly. Conservative Christians who are not fundamentalists?  Of course there are.  There are even Conservative Jews, Muslims and atheists, too.  But Conservatives are rather intimidated by their fundamentalists, and are not likely to stand up to them. Not only are they afraid of them, they need them.</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/02/18/approximating-armageddon-the-apocryphal-apocalypse/#comment-32291</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 03:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/</a></p>
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