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	<title>Comments on: Building on RL&#8217;s last post&#8211;concerning alternative technologies</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/10/16/building-on-rls-last-post-concerning-alternative-technologies/</link>
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		<title>By: RL</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/10/16/building-on-rls-last-post-concerning-alternative-technologies/#comment-33172</link>
		<dc:creator>RL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2015 17:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=51217#comment-33172</guid>
		<description>It wasn&#039;t easy for us to figure out how to manipulate the physical world we inhabit and understand many of its rules... To figure out how another species inhabiting another world with different abilities and limitations would make the leap to technology is impossible to say.  Perhaps an intelligent whale-like species with nothing like hands with which to manipulate tools would have patience to solve problems on a time scale humans could never accept... Perhaps they could spend a few 100&#039;s of thousands of years breeding a squid like creature to operate tools for them...


Who knows, there are so many alien unknowns... and perhaps it is presumptuous folly for us to even speculate on Kardashev Type II civilizations when we are just a Kardashian Season X civilization...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It wasn&#8217;t easy for us to figure out how to manipulate the physical world we inhabit and understand many of its rules&#8230; To figure out how another species inhabiting another world with different abilities and limitations would make the leap to technology is impossible to say.  Perhaps an intelligent whale-like species with nothing like hands with which to manipulate tools would have patience to solve problems on a time scale humans could never accept&#8230; Perhaps they could spend a few 100&#8242;s of thousands of years breeding a squid like creature to operate tools for them&#8230;</p>
<p>Who knows, there are so many alien unknowns&#8230; and perhaps it is presumptuous folly for us to even speculate on Kardashev Type II civilizations when we are just a Kardashian Season X civilization&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/10/16/building-on-rls-last-post-concerning-alternative-technologies/#comment-33156</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=51217#comment-33156</guid>
		<description>Reply on Off Topic</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply on Off Topic</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/10/16/building-on-rls-last-post-concerning-alternative-technologies/#comment-33153</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=51217#comment-33153</guid>
		<description>I once speculated on this forum (I can&#039;t locate the post now)on a hypothetical civilization that looked to our eyes like a coral reef.  Animals and plants living together in a complex, interrelated community. I called it (them) The Coela. They were sessile life forms that resembled our coral animals, sponges, or stromatolites.  Each individual polyp would have no intelligence, but collectively they would be a powerful mind.  Sort of how neurons working together make up a human brain.

But the civilization was highly advanced technologically. Instead of machines, they bred specialized life forms to do the mechanical tasks they required.  They also interfered with genetics and evolution to produce organisms (or alter themselves) to manufacture the exotic chemistries they used, they built enormous structures (like the Great Barrier Reef) that were actually planetary engineering works with specific purposes. They were capable of modifying evolution and climate on their world to suit their needs. They communicated by the release of chemical substances directly into ocean water, or generating and releasing plankton coded with modulated DNA carrying complex messages.

These creatures would live in a totally different time scale, it would take them centuries or millenia to carry out their plans and projects. Human activities to them would be like microsecond events, essentially undetectable, and we would be unrecognizable to them..  The Coela might have analogues of not only our science and engineering, but of our arts, languages, philosophy, mathematics, politics, even war.  And we wouldn&#039;t even recognize them as being sentient, much less a civilization.  The Coela would live in perfect harmony with their environment because they would not see themselves as being separate from the environment.  They would see themselves as being the sentient part of the planet, just as we see ourselves as being the sentient part of the biosphere.

Their physics would probably never develop magnets or Leyden jars, or telescopes or nuclear reactors.  But they could easily modify their planet&#039;s climate by altering ocean currents and atmospheric composition.  It just might take them millions of years....

I wish I could find that post.  Keyword: &quot;Coela&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once speculated on this forum (I can&#8217;t locate the post now)on a hypothetical civilization that looked to our eyes like a coral reef.  Animals and plants living together in a complex, interrelated community. I called it (them) The Coela. They were sessile life forms that resembled our coral animals, sponges, or stromatolites.  Each individual polyp would have no intelligence, but collectively they would be a powerful mind.  Sort of how neurons working together make up a human brain.</p>
<p>But the civilization was highly advanced technologically. Instead of machines, they bred specialized life forms to do the mechanical tasks they required.  They also interfered with genetics and evolution to produce organisms (or alter themselves) to manufacture the exotic chemistries they used, they built enormous structures (like the Great Barrier Reef) that were actually planetary engineering works with specific purposes. They were capable of modifying evolution and climate on their world to suit their needs. They communicated by the release of chemical substances directly into ocean water, or generating and releasing plankton coded with modulated DNA carrying complex messages.</p>
<p>These creatures would live in a totally different time scale, it would take them centuries or millenia to carry out their plans and projects. Human activities to them would be like microsecond events, essentially undetectable, and we would be unrecognizable to them..  The Coela might have analogues of not only our science and engineering, but of our arts, languages, philosophy, mathematics, politics, even war.  And we wouldn&#8217;t even recognize them as being sentient, much less a civilization.  The Coela would live in perfect harmony with their environment because they would not see themselves as being separate from the environment.  They would see themselves as being the sentient part of the planet, just as we see ourselves as being the sentient part of the biosphere.</p>
<p>Their physics would probably never develop magnets or Leyden jars, or telescopes or nuclear reactors.  But they could easily modify their planet&#8217;s climate by altering ocean currents and atmospheric composition.  It just might take them millions of years&#8230;.</p>
<p>I wish I could find that post.  Keyword: &#8220;Coela&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/10/16/building-on-rls-last-post-concerning-alternative-technologies/#comment-33149</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=51217#comment-33149</guid>
		<description>But I was wondering out loud about simple technologies that are different than the one&#039;s we&#039;ve mastered. Is it possible for an advanced technology to be based on sciences we don&#039;t know, or have just barely investigated? In other words, is there anything we missed?  Its hard to believe another advanced civilization would have gotten to the exact place we have, and taken the exact same path.  For example, the Romans and the Chinese were of comparable technological and social development, but they each developed technologies and sciences the other did not have.

It&#039;s hard to speculate about what never happened, or the unknown, but we have to imagine that if ETI had never seen the stars due to meteorological or astronomical obstacles, would they have developed Newton&#039;s Laws?  If there was no SiO2 (glass) on their planet, would they have had telescopes and microscopes?  And if not, what would they have replaced them with?  Would a species living underwater ever develop fire or electricity?

If it is unrealistic to expect they had the exact same technologies we did, then is it not unreasonable to expect they may have stumbled onto stuff lying right in front of us that we missed.  I can&#039;t give you better examples because I can&#039;t go there, but I find it hard to accept that ETI followed the same scientific development we did.  There must be other paths, paths we can&#039;t even imagine.

A very poor example: Western Man developed relatively few unarmed martial arts; just a few variations of boxing and wrestling, and they go back to Graeco-Roman times.  But they are truly crude in comparison to what the Asians developed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I was wondering out loud about simple technologies that are different than the one&#8217;s we&#8217;ve mastered. Is it possible for an advanced technology to be based on sciences we don&#8217;t know, or have just barely investigated? In other words, is there anything we missed?  Its hard to believe another advanced civilization would have gotten to the exact place we have, and taken the exact same path.  For example, the Romans and the Chinese were of comparable technological and social development, but they each developed technologies and sciences the other did not have.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to speculate about what never happened, or the unknown, but we have to imagine that if ETI had never seen the stars due to meteorological or astronomical obstacles, would they have developed Newton&#8217;s Laws?  If there was no SiO2 (glass) on their planet, would they have had telescopes and microscopes?  And if not, what would they have replaced them with?  Would a species living underwater ever develop fire or electricity?</p>
<p>If it is unrealistic to expect they had the exact same technologies we did, then is it not unreasonable to expect they may have stumbled onto stuff lying right in front of us that we missed.  I can&#8217;t give you better examples because I can&#8217;t go there, but I find it hard to accept that ETI followed the same scientific development we did.  There must be other paths, paths we can&#8217;t even imagine.</p>
<p>A very poor example: Western Man developed relatively few unarmed martial arts; just a few variations of boxing and wrestling, and they go back to Graeco-Roman times.  But they are truly crude in comparison to what the Asians developed.</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/10/16/building-on-rls-last-post-concerning-alternative-technologies/#comment-33148</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=51217#comment-33148</guid>
		<description>If they perceive the universe differently than we do, perhaps with senses that we literally can&#039;t imagine, how different might their outlook be? And if they have more powerful brains than we do, might they intuitively understand the quantum universe? After all, we can&#039;t even *find* dark matter.

And beyond their science and technology, what about the way their society works, specifically their politics and economics? Perhaps they&#039;d have models that simply would never occur to us, or would be hopelessly impossible for us, but entirely workable for them.

How will humanity accept intelligent beings that are, unequivocally, not human? My guess: not well. Not well at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they perceive the universe differently than we do, perhaps with senses that we literally can&#8217;t imagine, how different might their outlook be? And if they have more powerful brains than we do, might they intuitively understand the quantum universe? After all, we can&#8217;t even *find* dark matter.</p>
<p>And beyond their science and technology, what about the way their society works, specifically their politics and economics? Perhaps they&#8217;d have models that simply would never occur to us, or would be hopelessly impossible for us, but entirely workable for them.</p>
<p>How will humanity accept intelligent beings that are, unequivocally, not human? My guess: not well. Not well at all.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2015/10/16/building-on-rls-last-post-concerning-alternative-technologies/#comment-33143</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2015 00:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=51217#comment-33143</guid>
		<description>Uneducated, of course.  The electromagnetic spectrum as we know it has been exploited rather well.Maybe there is some creature which has learned to experience and exploit dark matter and dark energy to some greater or lesser degree. I realize that is at best impossible from what we know, and we certainly don&#039;t know it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uneducated, of course.  The electromagnetic spectrum as we know it has been exploited rather well.Maybe there is some creature which has learned to experience and exploit dark matter and dark energy to some greater or lesser degree. I realize that is at best impossible from what we know, and we certainly don&#8217;t know it all.</p>
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