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	<title>Comments on: Wrong to &#8220;make the connection&#8221;?</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/</link>
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		<title>By: SteveS</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/#comment-35286</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54478#comment-35286</guid>
		<description>Berlin (AFP) - A town in Germany has banned male asylum seekers from public swimming pools after complaints from women that they were being harassed by migrants, AFP learnt Friday.

http://news.yahoo.com/german-town-bans-male-asylum-seekers-public-pools-152516727.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Berlin (AFP) &#8211; A town in Germany has banned male asylum seekers from public swimming pools after complaints from women that they were being harassed by migrants, AFP learnt Friday.</p>
<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/german-town-bans-male-asylum-seekers-public-pools-152516727.html" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/german-town-bans-male-asylum-seekers-public-pools-152516727.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/#comment-35272</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2016 18:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54478#comment-35272</guid>
		<description>Saturday Night Live used to do a sketch about &quot;those wild and crazy guys&quot; who simply did not understand American ideas of &quot;cool&quot; and gender etiquette and consistently embarrassed themselves around attractive American women.  The butts of the SNL joke were vaguely eastern European, but it addresses a common stereotype of boorish foreigners, particularly poorly educated working class ones, who think American women are &quot;easy&quot; (probably because of Hollywood).  Its not always a stereotype, I&#039;ve seen it myself, not just about MittelEuropans, but also Middle Easterners, and yes, Latin Americans.  In short, you get poorly educated and unworldly people from traditional and misogynist societies and when they don&#039;t realize that you have to master certain social skills in the West to get laid, they sometimes get angry when they can&#039;t and they don&#039;t.

It rarely leads to violence, usually catcalls and whistles, rude remarks and a little Italian grabassing and groping are all that results, but I can imagine a social or political environment where it could turn ugly, especially when the adolescent gang dynamic takes over.  I lived in Puerto Rico for a year, I know why an attractive woman rarely goes out on the street without a male escort, especially if she&#039;s &lt;em&gt;una turista Americana&lt;/em&gt;.

Of course, this is no excuse for this sort of behavior, as even the more refined members of those societies will agree. And criminal behavior is totally unacceptable, and should be severely punished.  In their own countries, these guys would be punished too.  And of course, I&#039;m sure you know perfectly well not all sexually assaulted American girls are the victims of foreigners. I was a sailor who had a chance to see my shipmates acting like animals in redlight districts all over Asia.  Nice local girls stayed away from the waterfront in Yokosuka and Sasebo, Naha and Olongapo, too; and even the bar whores knew better than to walk the streets alone.

We&#039;re talking about restless adolescent males, emboldened by pack behavior, perhaps embittered by social or political oppression or just psychologically crushed by being unemployed strangers in a strange land, eager to take it out on somebody. Are we going to use their behavior as an excuse to affect our immigration and refugee policy, a policy which mostly deals with families fleeing oppression, war, tyranny and grinding poverty? Its not the refugees (many of them educated, middle class and city folk) we have to worry about, its the ones we invite in as cheap manual labor.

And it ain&#039;t just Arabs, Rob.  That&#039;s just who&#039;s on our shit list these days.  Remember, just a few months ago it was Mexican rapists we were getting all worked up over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saturday Night Live used to do a sketch about &#8220;those wild and crazy guys&#8221; who simply did not understand American ideas of &#8220;cool&#8221; and gender etiquette and consistently embarrassed themselves around attractive American women.  The butts of the SNL joke were vaguely eastern European, but it addresses a common stereotype of boorish foreigners, particularly poorly educated working class ones, who think American women are &#8220;easy&#8221; (probably because of Hollywood).  Its not always a stereotype, I&#8217;ve seen it myself, not just about MittelEuropans, but also Middle Easterners, and yes, Latin Americans.  In short, you get poorly educated and unworldly people from traditional and misogynist societies and when they don&#8217;t realize that you have to master certain social skills in the West to get laid, they sometimes get angry when they can&#8217;t and they don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>It rarely leads to violence, usually catcalls and whistles, rude remarks and a little Italian grabassing and groping are all that results, but I can imagine a social or political environment where it could turn ugly, especially when the adolescent gang dynamic takes over.  I lived in Puerto Rico for a year, I know why an attractive woman rarely goes out on the street without a male escort, especially if she&#8217;s <em>una turista Americana</em>.</p>
<p>Of course, this is no excuse for this sort of behavior, as even the more refined members of those societies will agree. And criminal behavior is totally unacceptable, and should be severely punished.  In their own countries, these guys would be punished too.  And of course, I&#8217;m sure you know perfectly well not all sexually assaulted American girls are the victims of foreigners. I was a sailor who had a chance to see my shipmates acting like animals in redlight districts all over Asia.  Nice local girls stayed away from the waterfront in Yokosuka and Sasebo, Naha and Olongapo, too; and even the bar whores knew better than to walk the streets alone.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re talking about restless adolescent males, emboldened by pack behavior, perhaps embittered by social or political oppression or just psychologically crushed by being unemployed strangers in a strange land, eager to take it out on somebody. Are we going to use their behavior as an excuse to affect our immigration and refugee policy, a policy which mostly deals with families fleeing oppression, war, tyranny and grinding poverty? Its not the refugees (many of them educated, middle class and city folk) we have to worry about, its the ones we invite in as cheap manual labor.</p>
<p>And it ain&#8217;t just Arabs, Rob.  That&#8217;s just who&#8217;s on our shit list these days.  Remember, just a few months ago it was Mexican rapists we were getting all worked up over.</p>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/#comment-35271</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2016 16:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54478#comment-35271</guid>
		<description>With the number of assaults in several countries it&#039;s not very likely it was orchestrated. It&#039;s it&#039;s more likely a cultural conflict driven by misogyny. 

A little anecdote and coincidence ; I was talking to my wife&#039;s granddaughter about Las Vegas. She&#039;s a very attractive 29 year old. She was surrounded by 10 Arabs in a casino. They were crudely trying to pick her up. She was frightened and bolted away. The same group was around the pool the next day and were loudly talking about sex, again, crudely. This is too similar to what happened in Europe to ignore.

Is it so wrong to choose who we&#039;re going to let in?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the number of assaults in several countries it&#8217;s not very likely it was orchestrated. It&#8217;s it&#8217;s more likely a cultural conflict driven by misogyny. </p>
<p>A little anecdote and coincidence ; I was talking to my wife&#8217;s granddaughter about Las Vegas. She&#8217;s a very attractive 29 year old. She was surrounded by 10 Arabs in a casino. They were crudely trying to pick her up. She was frightened and bolted away. The same group was around the pool the next day and were loudly talking about sex, again, crudely. This is too similar to what happened in Europe to ignore.</p>
<p>Is it so wrong to choose who we&#8217;re going to let in?</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/#comment-35191</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2016 04:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54478#comment-35191</guid>
		<description>Anyone connect this with American torture, rapes and killings in Afghanistan, Iraq?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone connect this with American torture, rapes and killings in Afghanistan, Iraq?</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/#comment-35106</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2016 06:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54478#comment-35106</guid>
		<description>By provoking their followers into causing trouble, extremists are able to divide German society, to provoke anti-Muslim sentiment and persecution of peaceful Muslims, to get extreme right-wing, neo-fascist and nativist elements in German society in an uproar.  This reaction can only cause more friction and conflict, which allows the terrorists to say &quot;See, those people hate you, you have to rise up against them in order to protect yourselves, join us.&quot;  The terrorists want conflict between the host and immigrant communities because it plays right into their hands.  It also forces moderate Muslims to pick sides, and go with the extremists.

You see a similar dynamic at work here in our &quot;Black Lives Matter&quot; movement.  Cops kill or otherwise persecute blacks, blacks (especially in high-crime communities), come to see cops as oppressors and occupiers, provocateurs on both sides cause trouble and try to provoke conflict (black rioters/looters, extremists and white supremacists), the cops feel like they are under attack, abandoned and betrayed by their own civil leadership and under threat by criminals and &quot;the press&quot;, so they tend to overreact, (or worse, do nothing out of fear).  The process feeds on itself, a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Innocent blacks are persecuted just because they&#039;re blacks, good cops are ambushed and attacked just because they&#039;re cops. 

This is not the first time in history this has happened.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By provoking their followers into causing trouble, extremists are able to divide German society, to provoke anti-Muslim sentiment and persecution of peaceful Muslims, to get extreme right-wing, neo-fascist and nativist elements in German society in an uproar.  This reaction can only cause more friction and conflict, which allows the terrorists to say &#8220;See, those people hate you, you have to rise up against them in order to protect yourselves, join us.&#8221;  The terrorists want conflict between the host and immigrant communities because it plays right into their hands.  It also forces moderate Muslims to pick sides, and go with the extremists.</p>
<p>You see a similar dynamic at work here in our &#8220;Black Lives Matter&#8221; movement.  Cops kill or otherwise persecute blacks, blacks (especially in high-crime communities), come to see cops as oppressors and occupiers, provocateurs on both sides cause trouble and try to provoke conflict (black rioters/looters, extremists and white supremacists), the cops feel like they are under attack, abandoned and betrayed by their own civil leadership and under threat by criminals and &#8220;the press&#8221;, so they tend to overreact, (or worse, do nothing out of fear).  The process feeds on itself, a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Innocent blacks are persecuted just because they&#8217;re blacks, good cops are ambushed and attacked just because they&#8217;re cops. </p>
<p>This is not the first time in history this has happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/#comment-35096</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2016 19:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54478#comment-35096</guid>
		<description>Yes. I said it. n/t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. I said it. n/t</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/#comment-35093</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2016 18:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54478#comment-35093</guid>
		<description>If there is even a hint of that over here in the future....it will be bad. 

Americans are not known for sitting back and taking it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there is even a hint of that over here in the future&#8230;.it will be bad. </p>
<p>Americans are not known for sitting back and taking it.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/#comment-35092</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2016 18:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54478#comment-35092</guid>
		<description>Look up &quot;taharrush gamea.&quot; This is cultural.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look up &#8220;taharrush gamea.&#8221; This is cultural.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/#comment-35089</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2016 17:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54478#comment-35089</guid>
		<description>I boil everything down to a personal level. It is what helps me to understand. 

This isn&#039;t anything different than if it were a mentally ill family member raping a family member.
You can&#039;t sweep this under the rug anymore than my Grandfather did with what an uncle was doing to my mother and her sister when they were 10 and 13.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I boil everything down to a personal level. It is what helps me to understand. </p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t anything different than if it were a mentally ill family member raping a family member.<br />
You can&#8217;t sweep this under the rug anymore than my Grandfather did with what an uncle was doing to my mother and her sister when they were 10 and 13.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveS</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/07/wrong-to-make-the-connection-2/#comment-35084</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54478#comment-35084</guid>
		<description>We can&#039;t just sweep these actions under the rug. That&#039;s how you get played. Its real and the Swedes are arming themselves because of it. Not because of right wing propaganda.

1 of 5 women now own a gun in Sweden. They&#039;re scared, not because of talk but, from unwanted advances. I think pepper spray with training would be a better defense but that&#039;s me.

We need to educate male refuges that there can be no discrimination of faith, culture and especially gender. Make them sign a paper showing they understand this and will be punished for crimes with jail time and deportation for second offenses.

Doing nothing and blaming hype isn&#039;t going to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can&#8217;t just sweep these actions under the rug. That&#8217;s how you get played. Its real and the Swedes are arming themselves because of it. Not because of right wing propaganda.</p>
<p>1 of 5 women now own a gun in Sweden. They&#8217;re scared, not because of talk but, from unwanted advances. I think pepper spray with training would be a better defense but that&#8217;s me.</p>
<p>We need to educate male refuges that there can be no discrimination of faith, culture and especially gender. Make them sign a paper showing they understand this and will be punished for crimes with jail time and deportation for second offenses.</p>
<p>Doing nothing and blaming hype isn&#8217;t going to work.</p>
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