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	<title>Comments on: Casual pot smokers.</title>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/14/casual-pot-smokers/#comment-35231</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2016 04:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54877#comment-35231</guid>
		<description>Point(s) taken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point(s) taken</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/14/casual-pot-smokers/#comment-35225</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2016 20:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54877#comment-35225</guid>
		<description>it could be argued that it wasn&#039;t the drugs that turned Colombia into a lawless battlefield, it was the War on Drugs. It wasn&#039;t alcohol that created Al Capone, bootlegging, and organized crime in the US.  It was Prohibition.

The Andean natives chewed coca leaves to help them survive their harsh climate for thousands of years, but it wasn&#039;t until cocaine
became popular with US consumers, and then it became against the law, that the huge profits materialized that made the criminal cartels not only possible, but inevitable.

No one is saying drugs are good, or that we should use drugs.  This is especially true of the addictive ones.  The non-addictive (like cannabis and the psychedelics), or partially addictive ones (like alcohol) will always be controlled by free market forces.  Note how cannabis prices have dropped (and quality and variety increased) in Colorado.  No one is going to pay top dollar for something they can wait for that can be easily purchased cheaper down the street. In fact, illicit drugs is one of the few free markets still left--except where addiction or police interference drives prices, and profits, up.  To paraphrase the NRA, when drugs are illegal only addicts and criminals will have drugs.

Alcohol, marijuana, tobacco, and opioids have been around for thousands of years. None of them were a criminal issue until they were criminalized! In other parts of the world, the locals all have their plant or product they use to get high. Addiction has also been around forever, but it has never reached the levels it has recently.  And why? 

There is room for all sorts of difference of opinion about how to deal with drugs and addiction, but it should be clear by now that simply making it against the law just doesn&#039;t work.  In fact, that&#039;s exactly what the traffickers want.

Historical Note:  When European traders found that there was really no market for any of their goods in China, they introduced a very profitable one: opium from Turkey (where it was well-known but not really a problem).  The Chinese had no culture inoculation against this poison, and it became a severe and widespread social problem.  The Chinese have never forgiven us for this.

And remember, European Mercantilistic Capitalism, Imperialism and colonialism were to a great extent financed by the drug trade (although we didn&#039;t call them drugs): spices, tea, coffee, cocoa, are consumable substances with little or no nutritional value, just &quot;habits&quot;; and in the Americas we had cane sugar, rum (a compact way of cheaply transporting sugar) and tobacco.  Just think, the founding fathers (especially the ones from the Southern colonies)were the drug lords of their time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it could be argued that it wasn&#8217;t the drugs that turned Colombia into a lawless battlefield, it was the War on Drugs. It wasn&#8217;t alcohol that created Al Capone, bootlegging, and organized crime in the US.  It was Prohibition.</p>
<p>The Andean natives chewed coca leaves to help them survive their harsh climate for thousands of years, but it wasn&#8217;t until cocaine<br />
became popular with US consumers, and then it became against the law, that the huge profits materialized that made the criminal cartels not only possible, but inevitable.</p>
<p>No one is saying drugs are good, or that we should use drugs.  This is especially true of the addictive ones.  The non-addictive (like cannabis and the psychedelics), or partially addictive ones (like alcohol) will always be controlled by free market forces.  Note how cannabis prices have dropped (and quality and variety increased) in Colorado.  No one is going to pay top dollar for something they can wait for that can be easily purchased cheaper down the street. In fact, illicit drugs is one of the few free markets still left&#8211;except where addiction or police interference drives prices, and profits, up.  To paraphrase the NRA, when drugs are illegal only addicts and criminals will have drugs.</p>
<p>Alcohol, marijuana, tobacco, and opioids have been around for thousands of years. None of them were a criminal issue until they were criminalized! In other parts of the world, the locals all have their plant or product they use to get high. Addiction has also been around forever, but it has never reached the levels it has recently.  And why? </p>
<p>There is room for all sorts of difference of opinion about how to deal with drugs and addiction, but it should be clear by now that simply making it against the law just doesn&#8217;t work.  In fact, that&#8217;s exactly what the traffickers want.</p>
<p>Historical Note:  When European traders found that there was really no market for any of their goods in China, they introduced a very profitable one: opium from Turkey (where it was well-known but not really a problem).  The Chinese had no culture inoculation against this poison, and it became a severe and widespread social problem.  The Chinese have never forgiven us for this.</p>
<p>And remember, European Mercantilistic Capitalism, Imperialism and colonialism were to a great extent financed by the drug trade (although we didn&#8217;t call them drugs): spices, tea, coffee, cocoa, are consumable substances with little or no nutritional value, just &#8220;habits&#8221;; and in the Americas we had cane sugar, rum (a compact way of cheaply transporting sugar) and tobacco.  Just think, the founding fathers (especially the ones from the Southern colonies)were the drug lords of their time.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/14/casual-pot-smokers/#comment-35213</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2016 00:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54877#comment-35213</guid>
		<description>If I had been born without a sex drive I&#039;d probably be a millionaire, or a great scientist or artist, by now.

I cannot believe how much time and effort I expended chasing women.

And yes, every now and then, I still hear the &quot;come hither&quot; voice.

Marijuana is no big deal.  It is neither  a spiritual awakening, nor an oblivion  and little death.  It is just a form of of innocent recreation with little or no long term benefit or drawback. The closest thing I can compare it to is being addicted to really good music.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I had been born without a sex drive I&#8217;d probably be a millionaire, or a great scientist or artist, by now.</p>
<p>I cannot believe how much time and effort I expended chasing women.</p>
<p>And yes, every now and then, I still hear the &#8220;come hither&#8221; voice.</p>
<p>Marijuana is no big deal.  It is neither  a spiritual awakening, nor an oblivion  and little death.  It is just a form of of innocent recreation with little or no long term benefit or drawback. The closest thing I can compare it to is being addicted to really good music.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/14/casual-pot-smokers/#comment-35212</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2016 00:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54877#comment-35212</guid>
		<description>And all the while funding terrorism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And all the while funding terrorism.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/14/casual-pot-smokers/#comment-35211</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2016 00:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54877#comment-35211</guid>
		<description>A little older than I am.  BS, MS Harvard.  Played 4 years of football there.  Ph. D. Stanford.  Taught at Stanford, then entered the corporate world.  Saw opportunities all over, made and kept millions, has impressive property holdings around the world.  First class property, too.  Happily married to a concert pianist.

Bright guy.  Describes himself as a pot addict, had daily use for years and years.

Still smokes it from time to time, does stuff he grows.  Can give me lectures on the various types, strains, strengths.  When he does smoke it he complains about lethargy and dullness.  Then he quits for a while, feels better, and then he hears the &quot;come hither&quot; voice.  Has the courage to say he hears for voice and not insist it&#039;s because he wants to.

Overall, he claims it was a good thing when he was younger and then he grew out of it.  Would be better off if he had quit by his early thirties.

Perceptive guy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little older than I am.  BS, MS Harvard.  Played 4 years of football there.  Ph. D. Stanford.  Taught at Stanford, then entered the corporate world.  Saw opportunities all over, made and kept millions, has impressive property holdings around the world.  First class property, too.  Happily married to a concert pianist.</p>
<p>Bright guy.  Describes himself as a pot addict, had daily use for years and years.</p>
<p>Still smokes it from time to time, does stuff he grows.  Can give me lectures on the various types, strains, strengths.  When he does smoke it he complains about lethargy and dullness.  Then he quits for a while, feels better, and then he hears the &#8220;come hither&#8221; voice.  Has the courage to say he hears for voice and not insist it&#8217;s because he wants to.</p>
<p>Overall, he claims it was a good thing when he was younger and then he grew out of it.  Would be better off if he had quit by his early thirties.</p>
<p>Perceptive guy.</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/14/casual-pot-smokers/#comment-35209</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2016 23:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54877#comment-35209</guid>
		<description>It was back when I lived in Canada, where they&#039;d come to study. Whenever they either saw someone using drugs (of pretty much any type), or heard someone defending the use of drugs, we&#039;d literally have to hold these women back. As far as they were concerned, the drug trade had destroyed their country and their people.

Personally, I&#039;ve never used illicit drugs, and after seeing what I saw on the faces of those two women, I knew I&#039;d never even consider it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was back when I lived in Canada, where they&#8217;d come to study. Whenever they either saw someone using drugs (of pretty much any type), or heard someone defending the use of drugs, we&#8217;d literally have to hold these women back. As far as they were concerned, the drug trade had destroyed their country and their people.</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;ve never used illicit drugs, and after seeing what I saw on the faces of those two women, I knew I&#8217;d never even consider it.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/14/casual-pot-smokers/#comment-35198</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2016 15:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54877#comment-35198</guid>
		<description>From early in 1969 to late in 1985 I smoked pot on a more or less daily basis.  Sure, I skipped a few days, and some days I was stoned all day long, but I would guess it averages out to getting high about once a day for 16 straight years.  Well, 16 continuous years.  There was an approximately 1 year hiatus in this journey while I worked overseas, because I didn&#039;t know anyone over there I could trust as a supplier.

During that time I managed to get honorably discharged from the US Navy, earn undergraduate college degrees in astronomy and mathematics, and a graduate degree in geography, I mastered two blue-collar trades, and worked as a high-tech software engineer, including a stretch in Silicon Valley. I also began a successful marriage and career. Since we all tend to hang out with people like ourselves, I can report that I was not unique in this respect.

During that time, not only was I an enthusiastic consumer of the devil weed, so was just about everyone I socialized and worked with.  There isn&#039;t one person I knew during that time whose life was screwed up by smoking this totally benign weed.  Neither did any one of THEM know anyone who was a victim of pot, either.  All the people I knew who screwed up their lives during that time were screwed up already, not because of the pot they smoked.  Sure, I don&#039;t know this for an absolute fact, but I do know a lot of fucked up people who never smoked pot, so it is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make.

So why did I quit?  In 1985 I applied for, and received, security clearances to work on defense projects.  I was told that I could not earn these clearances if I consumed illegal substances (yes, I was truthful about my marijuana use with the security authorities vetting me for this job).  I was not an unusual case for them, in fact, they mentioned that if past use of marijuana was an automatic disqualifier for a security clearance they would have to stop issuing them altogether.

So I quit getting high.  No, there were no withdrawal symptoms.  And I was never tempted to move on to more dangerous or addictive drugs. Could this be because I am not a naturally addictive personality?  No, because during that time, I was addicted to tobacco.  I had no trouble giving up pot, but I still miss cigarettes terribly.  Every single day. 

After I left my career as a spook, did I go back to regular pot smoking?  No, because I was in a situation where I didn&#039;t know anyone I trusted who could supply me on a regular basis.  Occasionally, I would run into an old friend and get high, and I still do, but I now use marijuana only infrequently, maybe once or twice a year.  Do I miss it?  Yes.  Am I likely to take any legal risks to resume its use? No. Would I become a regular user again if I lived in a state where it was legal? Absolutely!

Marijuana is a harmless weed.  No one has ever documented a genuine case of ill effects to health, or of genuine addiction, or of its use as a gateway to other controlled substances.  (Remember, every heroin addict started out on milk!) The opposition to it is relatively recent (1937) and has been motivated primarily by political considerations.  It was used to control and persecute Mexican immigrants, blacks, and later, hippies: individuals who were objectionable to the authorities but were not actually doing anything illegal. 

There were other reasons, too.  Pot smokers aren&#039;t naturally criminals.  Rounding them up was easy for the police, sort of a Special Olympics for the cops. It made them look good without having to expend too much effort or take any real risks.

So why did I, and so many of my generation, do this? I can only refer you to another gem of wisdom from Freewheelin&#039; Franklin.

&lt;em&gt;&quot;Dope will get you through months of no money better than money will get you through months of no dope.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From early in 1969 to late in 1985 I smoked pot on a more or less daily basis.  Sure, I skipped a few days, and some days I was stoned all day long, but I would guess it averages out to getting high about once a day for 16 straight years.  Well, 16 continuous years.  There was an approximately 1 year hiatus in this journey while I worked overseas, because I didn&#8217;t know anyone over there I could trust as a supplier.</p>
<p>During that time I managed to get honorably discharged from the US Navy, earn undergraduate college degrees in astronomy and mathematics, and a graduate degree in geography, I mastered two blue-collar trades, and worked as a high-tech software engineer, including a stretch in Silicon Valley. I also began a successful marriage and career. Since we all tend to hang out with people like ourselves, I can report that I was not unique in this respect.</p>
<p>During that time, not only was I an enthusiastic consumer of the devil weed, so was just about everyone I socialized and worked with.  There isn&#8217;t one person I knew during that time whose life was screwed up by smoking this totally benign weed.  Neither did any one of THEM know anyone who was a victim of pot, either.  All the people I knew who screwed up their lives during that time were screwed up already, not because of the pot they smoked.  Sure, I don&#8217;t know this for an absolute fact, but I do know a lot of fucked up people who never smoked pot, so it is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make.</p>
<p>So why did I quit?  In 1985 I applied for, and received, security clearances to work on defense projects.  I was told that I could not earn these clearances if I consumed illegal substances (yes, I was truthful about my marijuana use with the security authorities vetting me for this job).  I was not an unusual case for them, in fact, they mentioned that if past use of marijuana was an automatic disqualifier for a security clearance they would have to stop issuing them altogether.</p>
<p>So I quit getting high.  No, there were no withdrawal symptoms.  And I was never tempted to move on to more dangerous or addictive drugs. Could this be because I am not a naturally addictive personality?  No, because during that time, I was addicted to tobacco.  I had no trouble giving up pot, but I still miss cigarettes terribly.  Every single day. </p>
<p>After I left my career as a spook, did I go back to regular pot smoking?  No, because I was in a situation where I didn&#8217;t know anyone I trusted who could supply me on a regular basis.  Occasionally, I would run into an old friend and get high, and I still do, but I now use marijuana only infrequently, maybe once or twice a year.  Do I miss it?  Yes.  Am I likely to take any legal risks to resume its use? No. Would I become a regular user again if I lived in a state where it was legal? Absolutely!</p>
<p>Marijuana is a harmless weed.  No one has ever documented a genuine case of ill effects to health, or of genuine addiction, or of its use as a gateway to other controlled substances.  (Remember, every heroin addict started out on milk!) The opposition to it is relatively recent (1937) and has been motivated primarily by political considerations.  It was used to control and persecute Mexican immigrants, blacks, and later, hippies: individuals who were objectionable to the authorities but were not actually doing anything illegal. </p>
<p>There were other reasons, too.  Pot smokers aren&#8217;t naturally criminals.  Rounding them up was easy for the police, sort of a Special Olympics for the cops. It made them look good without having to expend too much effort or take any real risks.</p>
<p>So why did I, and so many of my generation, do this? I can only refer you to another gem of wisdom from Freewheelin&#8217; Franklin.</p>
<p><em>&#8220;Dope will get you through months of no money better than money will get you through months of no dope.&#8221;</em></p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/14/casual-pot-smokers/#comment-35197</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2016 06:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54877#comment-35197</guid>
		<description>From what I&#039;ve heard, the illegal P&amp;D networks are pretty pissed. Sales points? A shitty house in the alley behind a shitty house? Or stroll into a clean establishment with a waiting room with chairs you might, actually, you know, want to sit in?

Here&#039;s the thing: people get high, on one thing or another, and have, for all of the time we&#039;ve been people. You&#039;ll not stop that through legislation or indignation.

It&#039;s up to you. It&#039;s called freedom to do with the only property you really ever own - your body.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I&#8217;ve heard, the illegal P&amp;D networks are pretty pissed. Sales points? A shitty house in the alley behind a shitty house? Or stroll into a clean establishment with a waiting room with chairs you might, actually, you know, want to sit in?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the thing: people get high, on one thing or another, and have, for all of the time we&#8217;ve been people. You&#8217;ll not stop that through legislation or indignation.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s up to you. It&#8217;s called freedom to do with the only property you really ever own &#8211; your body.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/14/casual-pot-smokers/#comment-35196</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2016 06:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54877#comment-35196</guid>
		<description>I would bet that the illegal pricing and distribution networks are willing to beat the price and have more convenient sales points than the state-sponsored dealers.

I don&#039;t know that for sure, yet, but the illegal markets have been remarkably resilient.

Why not just do without?  Would solve the problem.  And it&#039;s not as if it&#039;s necessary, not like food or water.  And people would be much safer drivers.  As it is, a pot-addled person is not a good driver.  Or parent.  Or employee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would bet that the illegal pricing and distribution networks are willing to beat the price and have more convenient sales points than the state-sponsored dealers.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know that for sure, yet, but the illegal markets have been remarkably resilient.</p>
<p>Why not just do without?  Would solve the problem.  And it&#8217;s not as if it&#8217;s necessary, not like food or water.  And people would be much safer drivers.  As it is, a pot-addled person is not a good driver.  Or parent.  Or employee.</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/14/casual-pot-smokers/#comment-35195</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=54877#comment-35195</guid>
		<description>Like most counties, Boulder County has an online GIS portal. I can tell you from experience that theirs is especially generous in their open source data. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bouldercounty.org/gov/data/pages/gisdldata.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.bouldercounty.org/gov/data/pages/gisdldata.aspx&lt;/a&gt; 

Scroll down to the bottom to the zoning section and you can download a Goggle Earth file that will show you where pot is being commercially sold and grown within the county. That explains the skunk smell we get when riding our bikes in certain parts of the county. 

So far, Colorado&#039;s experiment with carefully regulated capitalism of a former black market (pure capitalism) is proceeding well. Traffic fatalities are down, tax revenues are up, we&#039;re in the top five state economies in the nation. We&#039;re fit, educated, starting innovative companies, and having fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like most counties, Boulder County has an online GIS portal. I can tell you from experience that theirs is especially generous in their open source data. <a href="http://www.bouldercounty.org/gov/data/pages/gisdldata.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.bouldercounty.org/gov/data/pages/gisdldata.aspx</a> </p>
<p>Scroll down to the bottom to the zoning section and you can download a Goggle Earth file that will show you where pot is being commercially sold and grown within the county. That explains the skunk smell we get when riding our bikes in certain parts of the county. </p>
<p>So far, Colorado&#8217;s experiment with carefully regulated capitalism of a former black market (pure capitalism) is proceeding well. Traffic fatalities are down, tax revenues are up, we&#8217;re in the top five state economies in the nation. We&#8217;re fit, educated, starting innovative companies, and having fun.</p>
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