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	<title>Comments on: On the National News tonight&#8230;</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/</link>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/#comment-35473</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2016 16:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s part of the story and it&#039;s being ignored for whatever reason. As far as the effects of lead on children, he did cover that. My fault for forgetting the link.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/01/22/flint-water-lead-poison-michigan-health-column/79019134/

Putting &quot;Catastrophic&quot; in quotes was not for emphasis. The meaning of the sentence would be different without them.

I don&#039;t care that the gov was a republican. The actions stand on their own and you&#039;re right about the &quot;criminality&quot; of what happened. And if Pod is right about the 30K that was needed to treat the system, it&#039;s that much worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s part of the story and it&#8217;s being ignored for whatever reason. As far as the effects of lead on children, he did cover that. My fault for forgetting the link.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/01/22/flint-water-lead-poison-michigan-health-column/79019134/" rel="nofollow">http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/01/22/flint-water-lead-poison-michigan-health-column/79019134/</a></p>
<p>Putting &#8220;Catastrophic&#8221; in quotes was not for emphasis. The meaning of the sentence would be different without them.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care that the gov was a republican. The actions stand on their own and you&#8217;re right about the &#8220;criminality&#8221; of what happened. And if Pod is right about the 30K that was needed to treat the system, it&#8217;s that much worse.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/#comment-35463</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2016 22:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55360#comment-35463</guid>
		<description>Too bad she&#039;s gay, because I think she&#039;s a real hottie.

And I have a feeling her ratings are going through the roof.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad she&#8217;s gay, because I think she&#8217;s a real hottie.</p>
<p>And I have a feeling her ratings are going through the roof.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/#comment-35462</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2016 21:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55360#comment-35462</guid>
		<description>The issue is not the toxicity of the lead, or the mortality of the victims. Its the culpability of the perpetrators.

Tom, you&#039;ve been pulling your bait-and-switch for as long as I&#039;ve known you.  Change the subject, dump a bunch of irrelevant statistics on us, and then whine because no one wants to bother to try disputing them. Nobody here falls for it anymore.

And as usual, the only alternative interpretation you can offer is the same old tedious statist Liberal media conspiracy that&#039;s out to steal your freedom and your stuff.

I&#039;ve already offered you a neutral ground for discussion, that this kind of government, or for that matter, corporate (because companies do it just like politicians), malfeasance is non-partisan. Its all about sleazebag careerists covering their ass, not some inevitable consequence of abstract ideological philosophy. 

But noooooooooooooooo...you still want to make it political. Its the only way you can relate to the social universe. Its the only way you know how to perceive reality, through a red filter over your right eye. You&#039;ve got no answers, just excuses.

And that, pal, is not spin. That&#039;s data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is not the toxicity of the lead, or the mortality of the victims. Its the culpability of the perpetrators.</p>
<p>Tom, you&#8217;ve been pulling your bait-and-switch for as long as I&#8217;ve known you.  Change the subject, dump a bunch of irrelevant statistics on us, and then whine because no one wants to bother to try disputing them. Nobody here falls for it anymore.</p>
<p>And as usual, the only alternative interpretation you can offer is the same old tedious statist Liberal media conspiracy that&#8217;s out to steal your freedom and your stuff.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve already offered you a neutral ground for discussion, that this kind of government, or for that matter, corporate (because companies do it just like politicians), malfeasance is non-partisan. Its all about sleazebag careerists covering their ass, not some inevitable consequence of abstract ideological philosophy. </p>
<p>But noooooooooooooooo&#8230;you still want to make it political. Its the only way you can relate to the social universe. Its the only way you know how to perceive reality, through a red filter over your right eye. You&#8217;ve got no answers, just excuses.</p>
<p>And that, pal, is not spin. That&#8217;s data.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveS</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/#comment-35461</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2016 21:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55360#comment-35461</guid>
		<description>Rachel Maddow has been caught more times lying than any other TV host that I know of. She makes Brian Williams look like a saint. Even Politico and Washington Post have blasted her for it.

Her ratings are in the dumps for a reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel Maddow has been caught more times lying than any other TV host that I know of. She makes Brian Williams look like a saint. Even Politico and Washington Post have blasted her for it.</p>
<p>Her ratings are in the dumps for a reason.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/#comment-35459</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2016 20:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55360#comment-35459</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;But none of it was wrong, was it?&lt;/p&gt;

You yourself were talking about a Pulitzer for Maddow. She opened her show on site with &quot;a disaster of national proportions has hit this city.&quot; If you had actually checked out any of my links you&#039;d have seen the usual suspects lined up around the block to exploit this.

That&#039;s what &quot;spin&quot; really looks like. Pointing out that it&#039;s &quot;spin&quot; isn&#039;t &quot;spin.&quot; Possibly &quot;counterspin.&quot;

You asked a question down below.

You really want an answer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But none of it was wrong, was it?</p>
<p>You yourself were talking about a Pulitzer for Maddow. She opened her show on site with &#8220;a disaster of national proportions has hit this city.&#8221; If you had actually checked out any of my links you&#8217;d have seen the usual suspects lined up around the block to exploit this.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what &#8220;spin&#8221; really looks like. Pointing out that it&#8217;s &#8220;spin&#8221; isn&#8217;t &#8220;spin.&#8221; Possibly &#8220;counterspin.&#8221;</p>
<p>You asked a question down below.</p>
<p>You really want an answer?</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/#comment-35458</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2016 19:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55360#comment-35458</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s called &quot;spin&quot;, TB.

That&#039;s why you&#039;re here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s called &#8220;spin&#8221;, TB.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why you&#8217;re here.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/#comment-35457</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55360#comment-35457</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Rob...&lt;/p&gt;

Perspective is not needed here. Neither is information. That isn&#039;t what this place is about.

Perspective would be looking at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/Flint_Blood_Testing_Report_December_23_509464_7.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;actual test numbers over time.&lt;/a&gt; And maybe noting the differences between very young and older children.

Perspective would be noting that until 2012, the CDC level of concern for lead was twice what it is now (it&#039;s currently 5 micrograms per deciliter). It has been falling steadily since the 60s, when that level was 60 micrograms per deciliter(!). These reductions were right and proper, since continued research shows that even small levels of lead can be an issue in younger people.

Perspective would be pointing out the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/01/27/many-michigan-cities-higher-lead-levels-flint/79438144/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;many cities in Michigan&lt;/a&gt; (and probably elsewhere) that have more lead problems than Flint. This is an ongoing and real issue that rarely makes national headlines, and the primary culprits are paint and dust, not water.

But this was one incident where they could point at a Republican leader, which are damn few and far between in Michigan cities like Detroit. The media set the mechanical rabbit loose and the hounds here followed in blind fury.

Just on my hourly national news fifteen minutes ago: &quot;Residents of Flint Michigan are calling for Governor to resign.&quot; This call is apparently &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.voanews.com/content/flint-michigan-water-crisis-turns-into-political-issue/3152305.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;going up across the nation.&lt;/a&gt;

Now you know the entire reason this is a major news story. That the city was Flint, a name that resonates on the Left, was just the cherry on the top.

ER asks, I hope honestly, how did this become a partisan issue? It was already one before he saw the first news story. It&#039;s why the news story existed at all.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob&#8230;</p>
<p>Perspective is not needed here. Neither is information. That isn&#8217;t what this place is about.</p>
<p>Perspective would be looking at <a href="http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/Flint_Blood_Testing_Report_December_23_509464_7.pdf" rel="nofollow">actual test numbers over time.</a> And maybe noting the differences between very young and older children.</p>
<p>Perspective would be noting that until 2012, the CDC level of concern for lead was twice what it is now (it&#8217;s currently 5 micrograms per deciliter). It has been falling steadily since the 60s, when that level was 60 micrograms per deciliter(!). These reductions were right and proper, since continued research shows that even small levels of lead can be an issue in younger people.</p>
<p>Perspective would be pointing out the <a href="http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/01/27/many-michigan-cities-higher-lead-levels-flint/79438144/" rel="nofollow">many cities in Michigan</a> (and probably elsewhere) that have more lead problems than Flint. This is an ongoing and real issue that rarely makes national headlines, and the primary culprits are paint and dust, not water.</p>
<p>But this was one incident where they could point at a Republican leader, which are damn few and far between in Michigan cities like Detroit. The media set the mechanical rabbit loose and the hounds here followed in blind fury.</p>
<p>Just on my hourly national news fifteen minutes ago: &#8220;Residents of Flint Michigan are calling for Governor to resign.&#8221; This call is apparently <a href="http://www.voanews.com/content/flint-michigan-water-crisis-turns-into-political-issue/3152305.html" rel="nofollow">going up across the nation.</a></p>
<p>Now you know the entire reason this is a major news story. That the city was Flint, a name that resonates on the Left, was just the cherry on the top.</p>
<p>ER asks, I hope honestly, how did this become a partisan issue? It was already one before he saw the first news story. It&#8217;s why the news story existed at all.</p>
<p>I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/#comment-35453</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2016 06:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55360#comment-35453</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying its not true, it just helps to soften the enormity of the crime that&#039;s been committed here, and perhaps divert and dampen a bit of the outrage and fury it should provoke. And I believe its designed to do exactly that.  Its damage control.

Putting things in &quot;perspective&quot;? Footnotes? Research? Writing &quot;Catastrophic&quot; in quotes? These meticulously documented irrelevancies only distract us from what happened and why and shift the conversation to somewhere else. You&#039;ve learned your lessons well here on the Zone. Who was your teacher?
&lt;em&gt;
Even if not one kid is affected by this incident&lt;/em&gt;, the lies, arrogance and greed that led to it should never be forgotten. And it should be punished severely so it won&#039;t ever happen again. Even if it turns out there were no victims, a crime has still been committed, and it will happen again if we let it slide, or soften its impact to further a partisan political agenda.

Are you aware that lead can cause neural damage, especially in children, that may not show up for years, not until long after the lead has been excreted by the body and no longer shows up in blood tests?  And I understand lead in the blood is quickly removed by the kidneys.  Some of these kids could be really damaged and still test negative for lead, this exposure started over a year ago.  Recent test results can be very misleading when they are compared with old records.  Your source seems to be blissfully unaware of this--or pretending to be so.  Perhaps this is just the first salvo of a PR counter-offensive from the governor&#039;s new media consultants.

We may never know the extent of the damage caused by this.  They need to be tested for years to come, and even then, we may not be able to do anything about it. And who&#039;s going to pay for that monitoring? It sure as hell won&#039;t be the cost-cutting Governor and his accountants, lawyers, spinmeisters  and publicity hacks.

Put THAT in perspective, Rob.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying its not true, it just helps to soften the enormity of the crime that&#8217;s been committed here, and perhaps divert and dampen a bit of the outrage and fury it should provoke. And I believe its designed to do exactly that.  Its damage control.</p>
<p>Putting things in &#8220;perspective&#8221;? Footnotes? Research? Writing &#8220;Catastrophic&#8221; in quotes? These meticulously documented irrelevancies only distract us from what happened and why and shift the conversation to somewhere else. You&#8217;ve learned your lessons well here on the Zone. Who was your teacher?<br />
<em><br />
Even if not one kid is affected by this incident</em>, the lies, arrogance and greed that led to it should never be forgotten. And it should be punished severely so it won&#8217;t ever happen again. Even if it turns out there were no victims, a crime has still been committed, and it will happen again if we let it slide, or soften its impact to further a partisan political agenda.</p>
<p>Are you aware that lead can cause neural damage, especially in children, that may not show up for years, not until long after the lead has been excreted by the body and no longer shows up in blood tests?  And I understand lead in the blood is quickly removed by the kidneys.  Some of these kids could be really damaged and still test negative for lead, this exposure started over a year ago.  Recent test results can be very misleading when they are compared with old records.  Your source seems to be blissfully unaware of this&#8211;or pretending to be so.  Perhaps this is just the first salvo of a PR counter-offensive from the governor&#8217;s new media consultants.</p>
<p>We may never know the extent of the damage caused by this.  They need to be tested for years to come, and even then, we may not be able to do anything about it. And who&#8217;s going to pay for that monitoring? It sure as hell won&#8217;t be the cost-cutting Governor and his accountants, lawyers, spinmeisters  and publicity hacks.</p>
<p>Put THAT in perspective, Rob.</p>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/#comment-35446</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2016 05:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55360#comment-35446</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot;... in fact, Flint&#039;s kids are better off than the previous generations of Michigander kids in at least one important way. Even after Flint’s disaster, the city’s children have far less lead in their blood than their parents or grandparents did at the same age.&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data are clear. In the late 1970s, 88% of Americans ages 1 to 5 had at least 10 micrograms per deciliter of lead in their blood, or twice as much as today&#039;s level of concern.&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Others are reporting the &quot;Catastrophic&quot; toll on Flint&#039;s children.

I don&#039;t see a problem with putting things in perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
&#8220;&#8230; in fact, Flint&#8217;s kids are better off than the previous generations of Michigander kids in at least one important way. Even after Flint’s disaster, the city’s children have far less lead in their blood than their parents or grandparents did at the same age.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data are clear. In the late 1970s, 88% of Americans ages 1 to 5 had at least 10 micrograms per deciliter of lead in their blood, or twice as much as today&#8217;s level of concern.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<p>Others are reporting the &#8220;Catastrophic&#8221; toll on Flint&#8217;s children.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see a problem with putting things in perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/26/on-the-national-news-tonight/#comment-35445</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2016 05:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55360#comment-35445</guid>
		<description>What we&#039;ve witnessed here is the substitution of management for humanity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What we&#8217;ve witnessed here is the substitution of management for humanity.</p>
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