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	<title>Comments on: Accidental uplift</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/</link>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/#comment-35516</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 17:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think we should all head to the arctic, where we can get our polar bearings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we should all head to the arctic, where we can get our polar bearings.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/#comment-35513</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 06:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s a load to bear, we know, but lessens as you bare your sole, and cod, and salmon as for the halibut you make a clean breast of things.  It&#039;s grizzly.  Put lipstick on it and pretend it&#039;s Sara Palin  Then a stake through it&#039;s heart and you&#039;ll be free, free as a bird, an eagle, soaring.  Avoid helicopters, Sarah will put a load through you.  Etc.  So on.

Remember, time flies like an eagle.
Fruit flies like a banana.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a load to bear, we know, but lessens as you bare your sole, and cod, and salmon as for the halibut you make a clean breast of things.  It&#8217;s grizzly.  Put lipstick on it and pretend it&#8217;s Sara Palin  Then a stake through it&#8217;s heart and you&#8217;ll be free, free as a bird, an eagle, soaring.  Avoid helicopters, Sarah will put a load through you.  Etc.  So on.</p>
<p>Remember, time flies like an eagle.<br />
Fruit flies like a banana.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/#comment-35512</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 05:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If they get crowded they&#039;ll (co)operate in a pack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they get crowded they&#8217;ll (co)operate in a pack.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/#comment-35510</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 02:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/#comment-35509</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55493#comment-35509</guid>
		<description>Guess who&#039;s descended from sapient bears?&lt;img src=&quot;http://orig00.deviantart.net/a6bb/f/2010/157/2/e/let_the_wookie_win_by_metaslasher.jpg&quot; /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guess who&#8217;s descended from sapient bears?<img src="http://orig00.deviantart.net/a6bb/f/2010/157/2/e/let_the_wookie_win_by_metaslasher.jpg" /></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/#comment-35508</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55493#comment-35508</guid>
		<description>Coyotes venture into the Bay Area all the time, but they still seem solitary. Wouldn&#039;t surprise me if solitary canids are only a mutation away from social canids; we could see that switch flip in coyotes at any time. If Wilson&#039;s theories of eusocial development are correct, watch for coyotes living together in fixed nests that they defend over time. That&#039;s the tipping point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coyotes venture into the Bay Area all the time, but they still seem solitary. Wouldn&#8217;t surprise me if solitary canids are only a mutation away from social canids; we could see that switch flip in coyotes at any time. If Wilson&#8217;s theories of eusocial development are correct, watch for coyotes living together in fixed nests that they defend over time. That&#8217;s the tipping point.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/#comment-35507</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55493#comment-35507</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the recommendation, podrock. I was enriched by it.

Wilson didn&#039;t speculate about the future development of eusociality--how far it could go beyond what we see today in the two major classes of eusocial species: Numerous but small insects, and larger but less numerous mammals.

Both classes today domesticate compatible species, so in a sense our extended phenotype includes other species we&#039;ve roped in and whose behavior we&#039;ve circumscribed using social control methods. Ants have aphids, humans have livestock and pets and working animals.

I don&#039;t know how much farther you can develop useful species beyond making them convenient to grow and harvest. But the mammalian category, exemplified by us, might be able to go much further through our social interactions with pets and helper animals. 

And of course the bears who wander into our sphere and whose behavior over time becomes aligned with our own to optimize food rewards. We have a social relationship with them, too.

I think perhaps once you achieve self-organization as a eusocial uberorganism of the mammalian class, the next step is to naturally and unconsciously integrate nearby species into your sphere and uplift them by an almost-literal process of osmosis. If all these other species find their attention riveted on one dominant eusocial species, they&#039;ll gradually synchronize their behaviors to optimally benefit from adoption into what becomes that species&#039; clan.

From another angle, maybe we&#039;re as smart as we can be, and now we&#039;re evolving intelligence further by developing it in the species who become integrated with our own.

So it could end up like Brin&#039;s universe, but without the conscious intent to uplift companion species. We could find ourselves leading a clan of intelligent species who grew up with us without our even noticing. At first.

Enough of that. On another track entirely: You do realize that Wookies are uplifted bears, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the recommendation, podrock. I was enriched by it.</p>
<p>Wilson didn&#8217;t speculate about the future development of eusociality&#8211;how far it could go beyond what we see today in the two major classes of eusocial species: Numerous but small insects, and larger but less numerous mammals.</p>
<p>Both classes today domesticate compatible species, so in a sense our extended phenotype includes other species we&#8217;ve roped in and whose behavior we&#8217;ve circumscribed using social control methods. Ants have aphids, humans have livestock and pets and working animals.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how much farther you can develop useful species beyond making them convenient to grow and harvest. But the mammalian category, exemplified by us, might be able to go much further through our social interactions with pets and helper animals. </p>
<p>And of course the bears who wander into our sphere and whose behavior over time becomes aligned with our own to optimize food rewards. We have a social relationship with them, too.</p>
<p>I think perhaps once you achieve self-organization as a eusocial uberorganism of the mammalian class, the next step is to naturally and unconsciously integrate nearby species into your sphere and uplift them by an almost-literal process of osmosis. If all these other species find their attention riveted on one dominant eusocial species, they&#8217;ll gradually synchronize their behaviors to optimally benefit from adoption into what becomes that species&#8217; clan.</p>
<p>From another angle, maybe we&#8217;re as smart as we can be, and now we&#8217;re evolving intelligence further by developing it in the species who become integrated with our own.</p>
<p>So it could end up like Brin&#8217;s universe, but without the conscious intent to uplift companion species. We could find ourselves leading a clan of intelligent species who grew up with us without our even noticing. At first.</p>
<p>Enough of that. On another track entirely: You do realize that Wookies are uplifted bears, right?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/#comment-35503</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2016 21:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have a couple of bear boxes left over from my backpacking days.  These are actually round canisters which would hold about 4 gallons of sand or liquid.  A bear could beat these around the world and not get in.  They are latched with two small tabs which have to be depressed simultaneously while at the same time the lid is turned.  It takes knowledge of what one is doing, some fine motor skills, more than a little dexterity and some strength.  I found learning to do it a bit hard, and holding down the proper tabs while turning the lid is tricky.

Apparently a bear somewhere in New England had figured out how to do it.  The canisters were still legal on the west coast but apparently the Forest Service planned on the ability to expand out from New England.

Bears are most closely related to dogs, who can do anything one sets their mind to training them to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a couple of bear boxes left over from my backpacking days.  These are actually round canisters which would hold about 4 gallons of sand or liquid.  A bear could beat these around the world and not get in.  They are latched with two small tabs which have to be depressed simultaneously while at the same time the lid is turned.  It takes knowledge of what one is doing, some fine motor skills, more than a little dexterity and some strength.  I found learning to do it a bit hard, and holding down the proper tabs while turning the lid is tricky.</p>
<p>Apparently a bear somewhere in New England had figured out how to do it.  The canisters were still legal on the west coast but apparently the Forest Service planned on the ability to expand out from New England.</p>
<p>Bears are most closely related to dogs, who can do anything one sets their mind to training them to do.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/#comment-35497</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2016 05:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55493#comment-35497</guid>
		<description>Yeah, you&#039;re geting pelted</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, you&#8217;re geting pelted</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2016/01/29/accidental-uplift/#comment-35496</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2016 04:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=55493#comment-35496</guid>
		<description>I gotta claw my way outta this</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta claw my way outta this</p>
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