Comments on: Flag burning, need clarification. https://habitablezone.com/2016/08/30/flag-burning-need-clarification/ Tue, 07 Apr 2026 19:18:10 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2016/08/30/flag-burning-need-clarification/#comment-37408 bowser Thu, 01 Sep 2016 01:49:25 +0000 https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=59532#comment-37408 As in igniting a flamable representation of the Stars and Stripes. :-) As in igniting a flamable representation of the Stars and Stripes. :-)

]]> By: RobVG https://habitablezone.com/2016/08/30/flag-burning-need-clarification/#comment-37406 RobVG Wed, 31 Aug 2016 04:23:45 +0000 https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=59532#comment-37406 powerful n/t powerful n/t

]]> By: ER https://habitablezone.com/2016/08/30/flag-burning-need-clarification/#comment-37405 ER Wed, 31 Aug 2016 03:44:44 +0000 https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=59532#comment-37405 But it makes a more powerful emotional statement than newsreel footage of Stukas bombing a village in Spain. http://www.ksarts.com/davis/guernica_bw.jpg But it makes a more powerful emotional statement than newsreel footage of Stukas bombing a village in Spain.

http://www.ksarts.com/davis/guernica_bw.jpg

]]> By: ER https://habitablezone.com/2016/08/30/flag-burning-need-clarification/#comment-37404 ER Wed, 31 Aug 2016 03:40:00 +0000 https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=59532#comment-37404 He also has the right to drop his pants, or shit in his helmet, or paint himself blue. or wear women's clothes. He also has the right to drop his pants, or shit in his helmet, or paint himself blue. or wear women’s clothes.

]]> By: RobVG https://habitablezone.com/2016/08/30/flag-burning-need-clarification/#comment-37403 RobVG Wed, 31 Aug 2016 03:24:49 +0000 https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=59532#comment-37403 The past few days I've heard a lot about Colin Kaepernick's refusal to stand for the national anthem. People even in Seattle are condemning him even though they mention "it's his constitutional right" not to. Which is absurd because no one is compelled to stand, or take off their hat, or put their hand over their heart. As far as I can tell, the 1st amendment protects our ability to dissent, either by spoken or written word. I've read that the interpretation broadened with the signing of international treaties on human rights. It's my opinion that people should be more understanding of Kaepernick's protest. To his credit, it's a peaceful one. The past few days I’ve heard a lot about Colin Kaepernick’s refusal to stand for the national anthem. People even in Seattle are condemning him even though they mention “it’s his constitutional right” not to. Which is absurd because no one is compelled to stand, or take off their hat, or put their hand over their heart.

As far as I can tell, the 1st amendment protects our ability to dissent, either by spoken or written word. I’ve read that the interpretation broadened with the signing of international treaties on human rights.

It’s my opinion that people should be more understanding of Kaepernick’s protest. To his credit, it’s a peaceful one.

]]> By: ER https://habitablezone.com/2016/08/30/flag-burning-need-clarification/#comment-37402 ER Wed, 31 Aug 2016 03:15:19 +0000 https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=59532#comment-37402 The first time I heard the Jimi Hendrix version of the Star Spangled Banner on the Woodstock movie soundtrack I was appalled. But since then it has not only grown on me, I've come to see as more emotional and more relevant that all those mindless performances at athletic events. Listen to it again, it must be on Youtube, or somewhere on the Internet. It is a powerful document. It means something, and it certainly must have meant something to Jimi. He owns it. No one else can touch it. And he shreds it. I can't think of anyone elses version that can come close. The first time I heard the Jimi Hendrix version of the Star Spangled Banner on the Woodstock movie soundtrack I was appalled. But since then it has not only grown on me, I’ve come to see as more emotional and more relevant that all those mindless performances at athletic events.

Listen to it again, it must be on Youtube, or somewhere on the Internet. It is a powerful document. It means something, and it certainly must have meant something to Jimi. He owns it. No one else can touch it. And he shreds it. I can’t think of anyone elses version that can come close.

]]> By: ER https://habitablezone.com/2016/08/30/flag-burning-need-clarification/#comment-37401 ER Wed, 31 Aug 2016 03:05:11 +0000 https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=59532#comment-37401 Nowhere in the constitution is the flag even mentioned. And I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't mentioned in any other country's constitution or other founding documents. Although the nation's colors are (like the national anthem) certainly a legitimate expression of patriotism and national honor in every country, burning or not burning flags, or elaborate regulations governing its display and use, are questions of good manners, not of law. Ships, particularly warships, at sea have elaborate rules about flag etiquette, who salutes first, who dips to who, which flags you fly as courtesy when anchored in a foreign harbor, etc; all are a question of custom and respect, even diplomatic protocol. But as far as the use of the flag within a country by its own citizens, it is a question of respect, not of law. The flag deserves some respect and ceremony, and the colors of other nations should also be accorded courtesy, lest it be considered an insult. Deliberately disrespecting another's national emblem is the same as insulting him to his face, it is calculated to do so, and he is obligated to take it that way and do something about it, for honor's sake. But even enemies on the battlefield respect each other's colors, its like saluting your opponent prior to fighting him. But its not a question of law. If you have to pass a law to make people respect the flag, it no longer commands respect. I suspect I know where you're coming from. In the 1960s, it became a form of protest (free speech) in the USA to deliberately disrespect the American flag, by burning, among other insults. It was a means of getting attention, making your point, telling the people you were speaking to that you didn't care for them or for their laws and customs (which, by the way, is not only legal, it is our right and should be encouraged). But doing this by defiling the flag never struck me as a good idea. I felt uncomfortable with it, it seemed needlessly harsh and deliberately disrespectful, and I don't think it is necessary to insult the very symbol of your community and everyone in it because you disagree with what some of your fellow citizens think or do. I still feel a bit awkward and hurt when the flag is disrespected, even if I support the cause the protestors advocate. ON THE OTHER HAND...I do not appreciate how the establishment, the ruling class, the bosses, the majority, the other guys, whatever you want to call them, hide behind the flag. When they use the flag not as a symbol of national solidarity, but as a way of implicating that honest dissent and sincere moral outrage is illegitimate and is somehow unAmerican or unpatriotic. People like that also are disrespecting the flag by appropriating it for their own purposes, as a means of insulting anyone who has the audacity to express themselves or who seeks to advocate a different point of view. Those people (the flag fetishists) need to be taught a lesson, to have that same flag rubbed in their faces, so they can learn that we are not intimidated by their phony self-righteousness. What gives them the right to declare their superstitions as patriotism, and everyone elses belief as treason? As for the Pledge of Allegiance, that should be gotten rid of. We are the only country in the world that has one, and it seems pretty pathetic that the land of the free, and the home of the brave needs to have a coerced oath, enforced by a lynch mob. Its like forcing people to pray. Ot making them take an oath to the Fuhrer. I took an oath when I joined the military, because I joined voluntarily and that was a symbolic ceremony punctuating that solemn moment. We take an oath when we are appointed to public office, and when we choose a mate. These are oaths to be taken seriously. But forcing kids in a class to mindlessly repeat those syllables every school day of their lives is an obscenity. Its a form of mind control through group coercion which should not be tolerated by a free people. Nowhere in the constitution is the flag even mentioned. And I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t mentioned in any other country’s constitution or other founding documents. Although the nation’s colors are (like the national anthem) certainly a legitimate expression of patriotism and national honor in every country, burning or not burning flags, or elaborate regulations governing its display and use, are questions of good manners, not of law. Ships, particularly warships, at sea have elaborate rules about flag etiquette, who salutes first, who dips to who, which flags you fly as courtesy when anchored in a foreign harbor, etc; all are a question of custom and respect, even diplomatic protocol. But as far as the use of the flag within a country by its own citizens, it is a question of respect, not of law. The flag deserves some respect and ceremony, and the colors of other nations should also be accorded courtesy, lest it be considered an insult. Deliberately disrespecting another’s national emblem is the same as insulting him to his face, it is calculated to do so, and he is obligated to take it that way and do something about it, for honor’s sake. But even enemies on the battlefield respect each other’s colors, its like saluting your opponent prior to fighting him. But its not a question of law. If you have to pass a law to make people respect the flag, it no longer commands respect.

I suspect I know where you’re coming from. In the 1960s, it became a form of protest (free speech) in the USA to deliberately disrespect the American flag, by burning, among other insults. It was a means of getting attention, making your point, telling the people you were speaking to that you didn’t care for them or for their laws and customs (which, by the way, is not only legal, it is our right and should be encouraged). But doing this by defiling the flag never struck me as a good idea. I felt uncomfortable with it, it seemed needlessly harsh and deliberately disrespectful, and I don’t think it is necessary to insult the very symbol of your community and everyone in it because you disagree with what some of your fellow citizens think or do. I still feel a bit awkward and hurt when the flag is disrespected, even if I support the cause the protestors advocate.

ON THE OTHER HAND…I do not appreciate how the establishment, the ruling class, the bosses, the majority, the other guys, whatever you want to call them, hide behind the flag. When they use the flag not as a symbol of national solidarity, but as a way of implicating that honest dissent and sincere moral outrage is illegitimate and is somehow unAmerican or unpatriotic. People like that also are disrespecting the flag by appropriating it for their own purposes, as a means of insulting anyone who has the audacity to express themselves or who seeks to advocate a different point of view. Those people (the flag fetishists) need to be taught a lesson, to have that same flag rubbed in their faces, so they can learn that we are not intimidated by their phony self-righteousness. What gives them the right to declare their superstitions as patriotism, and everyone elses belief as treason?

As for the Pledge of Allegiance, that should be gotten rid of. We are the only country in the world that has one, and it seems pretty pathetic that the land of the free, and the home of the brave needs to have a coerced oath, enforced by a lynch mob. Its like forcing people to pray. Ot making them take an oath to the Fuhrer. I took an oath when I joined the military, because I joined voluntarily and that was a symbolic ceremony punctuating that solemn moment. We take an oath when we are appointed to public office, and when we choose a mate. These are oaths to be taken seriously.

But forcing kids in a class to mindlessly repeat those syllables every school day of their lives is an obscenity. Its a form of mind control through group coercion which should not be tolerated by a free people.

]]> By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2016/08/30/flag-burning-need-clarification/#comment-37400 bowser Wed, 31 Aug 2016 02:48:12 +0000 https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=59532#comment-37400 If someone burns a flag, they haven't damaged me in the slightest. Let 'em burn, I don't care. If someone shoots me in the foot, now they have done real damage. Now we have a real dispute. Burn a flag, you've said you don't like whatever the flag stands for. Big Whoops. Bloody my nose and we are going to have a tussle. Am I going to get upset because you burn my flag? I have better things to do, even if you don't. If someone burns a flag, they haven’t damaged me in the slightest. Let ‘em burn, I don’t care. If someone shoots me in the foot, now they have done real damage. Now we have a real dispute. Burn a flag, you’ve said you don’t like whatever the flag stands for. Big Whoops. Bloody my nose and we are going to have a tussle.
Am I going to get upset because you burn my flag? I have better things to do, even if you don’t.

]]> By: bowser https://habitablezone.com/2016/08/30/flag-burning-need-clarification/#comment-37399 bowser Wed, 31 Aug 2016 02:41:58 +0000 https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=59532#comment-37399 Is Flag Burning Illegal? WrittenS. Danilinaand Fact Checked by The Law Dictionary Staff Currently, flag burning is not illegal in the United States. The Supreme Court of the United States in its decision from 1969 has ruled that the burning of the flag is protected by the First Amendment. However, the person who burnt the flag can be found guilty of a misdemeanor for starting a fire without a permit. Law Dictionary: Is Flag Burning Illegal? Is Flag Burning Illegal?
WrittenS. Danilinaand Fact Checked by The Law Dictionary Staff
Currently, flag burning is not illegal in the United States. The Supreme Court of the United States in its decision from 1969 has ruled that the burning of the flag is protected by the First Amendment. However, the person who burnt the flag can be found guilty of a misdemeanor for starting a fire without a permit.

Law Dictionary: Is Flag Burning Illegal?

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