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	<title>Comments on: An answer to Robert&#8217;s serious question.</title>
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		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/02/20/an-answer-to-roberts-question/#comment-38426</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2017 16:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=62271#comment-38426</guid>
		<description>I was trying to point out we all have a natural tendency to try and cover for our side, and be really nit-picky when it comes to pointing out the flaws of the other.

For example. Bill Clinton technically deserved to be impeached because he committed perjury during the Monicagate investigations.  The law is pretty clear about that.  But at the same time, we all knew that the whole witch hunt about who Bill was dipping his wick in was purely political theater, and had nothing to do with his competence as a president.  Nobody really cared about the President&#039;s sexual dalliances, only the Republicans did. American Presidential history is loaded with affairs, adultery and all sorts of other sexual misconduct, and only Clinton was punished for it.  Why? Because it was all the Republicans could hang on him.  I point out Clinton because he&#039;s my man, a Democrat.  But Republicans are far from being sexual innocents themselves.

You can&#039;t blame people for looking real closely at the sins of the other side, and cavalierly dismissing as irrelevant the pecadilloes of their side. Its perfectly natural, and I&#039;m guilty of it, too. We all tend to interpret the world according to our perceptions and our preconceptions.  

I have convinced myself I am a scrupulously intellectually honest man, and yet I catch myself doing it all the time. So I&#039;m not too shocked when the other side does it.

Now deliberately distorting the truth and making up lies because you want your side to win even when you definitely know better and often concerning an issue totally different than the one in dispute...well, that&#039;s something else again.

I expect a particular political party to bitterly oppose policies proposed by the other side they are in disagreement with.  After all, that is their job, their duty.

But when they oppose policies their opponents favor even when they agree with them, just to make their opponents fail, even when it hurts the country as a whole, that is unforgivable.  Maybe disreputable politicians have always done this, but today&#039;s Republican party has now done it openly and publicly, its part of their policy to get their economic and social agenda passed.  And they make no effort to disguise or hide their treachery, they proclaim it publicly and proudly.

That&#039;s just not unforgivable, that&#039;s treason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was trying to point out we all have a natural tendency to try and cover for our side, and be really nit-picky when it comes to pointing out the flaws of the other.</p>
<p>For example. Bill Clinton technically deserved to be impeached because he committed perjury during the Monicagate investigations.  The law is pretty clear about that.  But at the same time, we all knew that the whole witch hunt about who Bill was dipping his wick in was purely political theater, and had nothing to do with his competence as a president.  Nobody really cared about the President&#8217;s sexual dalliances, only the Republicans did. American Presidential history is loaded with affairs, adultery and all sorts of other sexual misconduct, and only Clinton was punished for it.  Why? Because it was all the Republicans could hang on him.  I point out Clinton because he&#8217;s my man, a Democrat.  But Republicans are far from being sexual innocents themselves.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t blame people for looking real closely at the sins of the other side, and cavalierly dismissing as irrelevant the pecadilloes of their side. Its perfectly natural, and I&#8217;m guilty of it, too. We all tend to interpret the world according to our perceptions and our preconceptions.  </p>
<p>I have convinced myself I am a scrupulously intellectually honest man, and yet I catch myself doing it all the time. So I&#8217;m not too shocked when the other side does it.</p>
<p>Now deliberately distorting the truth and making up lies because you want your side to win even when you definitely know better and often concerning an issue totally different than the one in dispute&#8230;well, that&#8217;s something else again.</p>
<p>I expect a particular political party to bitterly oppose policies proposed by the other side they are in disagreement with.  After all, that is their job, their duty.</p>
<p>But when they oppose policies their opponents favor even when they agree with them, just to make their opponents fail, even when it hurts the country as a whole, that is unforgivable.  Maybe disreputable politicians have always done this, but today&#8217;s Republican party has now done it openly and publicly, its part of their policy to get their economic and social agenda passed.  And they make no effort to disguise or hide their treachery, they proclaim it publicly and proudly.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s just not unforgivable, that&#8217;s treason.</p>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/02/20/an-answer-to-roberts-question/#comment-38425</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2017 05:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=62271#comment-38425</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have much energy but I&#039;m working on a reply. Probably and anti-climactic one. 

And I&#039;m not particularly comfortable using personal pronouns these days. At least here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have much energy but I&#8217;m working on a reply. Probably and anti-climactic one. </p>
<p>And I&#8217;m not particularly comfortable using personal pronouns these days. At least here.</p>
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		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/02/20/an-answer-to-roberts-question/#comment-38420</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2017 00:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=62271#comment-38420</guid>
		<description>Even those Conservatives who are convinced Trump is a dangerous incompetent and a bully are afraid that their program will suffer if he is discredited.

In  other words, they really want that tax cut.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even those Conservatives who are convinced Trump is a dangerous incompetent and a bully are afraid that their program will suffer if he is discredited.</p>
<p>In  other words, they really want that tax cut.</p>
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		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/02/20/an-answer-to-roberts-question/#comment-38419</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2017 00:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=62271#comment-38419</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s all a gradient, a spectrum, of course.  But I&#039;ll give you the extreme case so you&#039;ll see where I&#039;m coming from.

I am convinced Conservatives believe that the people who matter, the really valuable citizens of this society, are those who go into business.  They feel the business community are the natural leaders and they deserve to be.  They are the ones who take the chances, who put it all on the line, the ones who make things happen.  They have the ambition, the innovation, the initiative, the work ethic, the dedication. They are the true generalists who make the difference.  Everyone else is either an overpaid specialist or is just in it for a paycheck.  We may be willing to work hard on the job, but we go home and forget about it after punching out. We are just employees. We are interchangeable.

Conservatives/businessman wannabees have also convinced themselves of their moral superiority because they feel that the free market weeds out the crooked as well as the dumb.  Yes, they really believe this.
Its why they are convinced of their moral superiority. It is guaranteed by some form of magical Commercial Darwinism.

They don&#039;t necessarily think those who aren&#039;t entrepreneurs or executives are bad people, but they do believe they really aren&#039;t as dedicated as they are.  They feel the workers, even highly skilled ones like physicians or scientists, don&#039;t have the social conscience to contribute to society in a position of leadership and risk.  The rest of us are, to them, at best, happy-go-lucky, perhaps even competent craftsmen; at worst, we are lazy, a bit larcenous, and not too bright.

As for Conservatives who aren&#039;t entrepreneurs, managers or executives, (most, of course, are not!) they really feel they SHOULD be because they and only they have the right civic and psychological virtues. If they are not in the ownership class, its either because they&#039;ve had a run of &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; bad luck, or because they have been cheated out of their entitlement by foreigners, minorities, liberals, government bureaucrats, socialists, unions, academics, journalists and effete elitists and the intelligentsia.  In other words, everyone who isn&#039;t one of them.  Or at any rate, anyone who doesn&#039;t see themselves as one of them.

These people tend to go Conservative because they see themselves as intrinsically better, more productive people, more valuable, and the political philosophy they prefer is the one that claims to represent their party and their class. They feel they are this way intrinsically, either from some genetic advantage, or because they were raised by people like that, or because they come from an exceptional nation that is like that.  

I&#039;ve given this a lot of thought, Robert.  If you insist, I&#039;ll go into the historical, cultural, psychological and social factors that I believe has made these people like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s all a gradient, a spectrum, of course.  But I&#8217;ll give you the extreme case so you&#8217;ll see where I&#8217;m coming from.</p>
<p>I am convinced Conservatives believe that the people who matter, the really valuable citizens of this society, are those who go into business.  They feel the business community are the natural leaders and they deserve to be.  They are the ones who take the chances, who put it all on the line, the ones who make things happen.  They have the ambition, the innovation, the initiative, the work ethic, the dedication. They are the true generalists who make the difference.  Everyone else is either an overpaid specialist or is just in it for a paycheck.  We may be willing to work hard on the job, but we go home and forget about it after punching out. We are just employees. We are interchangeable.</p>
<p>Conservatives/businessman wannabees have also convinced themselves of their moral superiority because they feel that the free market weeds out the crooked as well as the dumb.  Yes, they really believe this.<br />
Its why they are convinced of their moral superiority. It is guaranteed by some form of magical Commercial Darwinism.</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t necessarily think those who aren&#8217;t entrepreneurs or executives are bad people, but they do believe they really aren&#8217;t as dedicated as they are.  They feel the workers, even highly skilled ones like physicians or scientists, don&#8217;t have the social conscience to contribute to society in a position of leadership and risk.  The rest of us are, to them, at best, happy-go-lucky, perhaps even competent craftsmen; at worst, we are lazy, a bit larcenous, and not too bright.</p>
<p>As for Conservatives who aren&#8217;t entrepreneurs, managers or executives, (most, of course, are not!) they really feel they SHOULD be because they and only they have the right civic and psychological virtues. If they are not in the ownership class, its either because they&#8217;ve had a run of <em>really</em> bad luck, or because they have been cheated out of their entitlement by foreigners, minorities, liberals, government bureaucrats, socialists, unions, academics, journalists and effete elitists and the intelligentsia.  In other words, everyone who isn&#8217;t one of them.  Or at any rate, anyone who doesn&#8217;t see themselves as one of them.</p>
<p>These people tend to go Conservative because they see themselves as intrinsically better, more productive people, more valuable, and the political philosophy they prefer is the one that claims to represent their party and their class. They feel they are this way intrinsically, either from some genetic advantage, or because they were raised by people like that, or because they come from an exceptional nation that is like that.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve given this a lot of thought, Robert.  If you insist, I&#8217;ll go into the historical, cultural, psychological and social factors that I believe has made these people like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/02/20/an-answer-to-roberts-question/#comment-38418</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=62271#comment-38418</guid>
		<description>Your last paragraph isn&#039;t entirely clear, but I&#039;ll read it as mcfly did, and ask you the same question: Why is our attitude different? Both of you posit evidence-based scenarios, not mere partisan smearing, so why would conservatives be ignoring the evidence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your last paragraph isn&#8217;t entirely clear, but I&#8217;ll read it as mcfly did, and ask you the same question: Why is our attitude different? Both of you posit evidence-based scenarios, not mere partisan smearing, so why would conservatives be ignoring the evidence?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/02/20/an-answer-to-roberts-question/#comment-38417</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=62271#comment-38417</guid>
		<description>Sincerity is the mother of truthiness and grandmother of fake news&#8482;

Judging by the Second &lt;strike&gt;Nuremburg&lt;/strike&gt;Melbourne Rally, Trump&#039;s disciples sincerely believe that their President is the source of the only truth in a scary universe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sincerity is the mother of truthiness and grandmother of fake news&trade;</p>
<p>Judging by the Second <strike>Nuremburg</strike>Melbourne Rally, Trump&#8217;s disciples sincerely believe that their President is the source of the only truth in a scary universe.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/02/20/an-answer-to-roberts-question/#comment-38416</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2017 21:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=62271#comment-38416</guid>
		<description>Why aren&#039;t conservatives vocal opponents of &quot;someone in the White House who [appears recklessly determined] to endanger the country and her people&quot;?

(I&#039;m using &quot;hypothetical&quot; in an ironic way here, of course.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why aren&#8217;t conservatives vocal opponents of &#8220;someone in the White House who [appears recklessly determined] to endanger the country and her people&#8221;?</p>
<p>(I&#8217;m using &#8220;hypothetical&#8221; in an ironic way here, of course.)</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/02/20/an-answer-to-roberts-question/#comment-38415</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2017 20:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=62271#comment-38415</guid>
		<description>In that case...Hank 2020!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In that case&#8230;Hank 2020!!</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/02/20/an-answer-to-roberts-question/#comment-38414</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2017 20:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=62271#comment-38414</guid>
		<description>A lot of progressives became quite pointed in their criticism of Obama over a number of issues, and a great many liberals (including most liberals here, I think) openly criticised Clinton after we became aware of how unfairly Sanders was treated by the DNC.

I dunno. I think if liberals put someone in the White House who went on to endanger the country and her people, I think many if not most of those same liberals would become very vocal opponents of that president. I hope I&#039;d be among them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of progressives became quite pointed in their criticism of Obama over a number of issues, and a great many liberals (including most liberals here, I think) openly criticised Clinton after we became aware of how unfairly Sanders was treated by the DNC.</p>
<p>I dunno. I think if liberals put someone in the White House who went on to endanger the country and her people, I think many if not most of those same liberals would become very vocal opponents of that president. I hope I&#8217;d be among them.</p>
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		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/02/20/an-answer-to-roberts-question/#comment-38413</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=62271#comment-38413</guid>
		<description>I keep tellin&#039; you guys, I&#039;m the TRUE Conservative on this forum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep tellin&#8217; you guys, I&#8217;m the TRUE Conservative on this forum.</p>
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