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	<title>Comments on: The new MCcarthyism and Hillary the Neocon</title>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/03/27/the-new-mccarthyism-and-hillary-the-neocon/#comment-38862</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2017 05:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63000#comment-38862</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry, Rob...*who&#039;s* the neocon? Would it be Benedict Donald?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, Rob&#8230;*who&#8217;s* the neocon? Would it be Benedict Donald?</p>
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		<title>By: RL</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/03/27/the-new-mccarthyism-and-hillary-the-neocon/#comment-38859</link>
		<dc:creator>RL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2017 01:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63000#comment-38859</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/trump-russia-british-intelligence/index.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;British intelligence passed Trump associates&#039; communications with Russians on to US counterparts&lt;/a&gt;



&lt;blockquote&gt;--British and other European intelligence agencies intercepted communications between associates of Donald Trump and Russian officials and other Russian individuals during the campaign and passed on those communications to their US counterparts, US congressional and law enforcement and US and European intelligence sources tell CNN.
The communications were captured during routine surveillance of Russian officials and other Russians known to western intelligence. British and European intelligence agencies, including GCHQ, the British intelligence agency responsible for communications surveillance, were not proactively targeting members of the Trump team but rather picked up these communications during what&#039;s known as &quot;incidental collection,&quot; these sources tell CNN.

The European intelligence agencies detected multiple communications over several months between the Trump associates and Russian individuals -- and passed on that intelligence to the US. The US and Britain are part of the so-called &quot;Five Eyes&quot; agreement (along with Canada, Australia and New Zealand), which calls for open sharing among member nations of a broad range of intelligence.
The communications are likely to be scrutinized as part of the Senate Intelligence Committee&#039;s investigation into Russia&#039;s efforts to meddle in the 2016 presidential election.

&quot;If foreign intelligence agencies share information with US intelligence, and it&#039;s relevant to the investigation, then of course the intelligence committee will look at it,&quot; a source close to the Senate investigation told CNN.
The Guardian reported earlier Thursday that British alerted US Intel of such contacts.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;


&lt;a href=&quot;https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
British spies were first to spot Trump team&#039;s links with Russia &lt;/a&gt;





&lt;blockquote&gt;GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.

Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.


The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.

Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors.

It is understood that GCHQ was at no point carrying out a targeted operation against Trump or his team or proactively seeking information. The alleged conversations were picked up by chance as part of routine surveillance of Russian intelligence assets. Over several months, different agencies targeting the same people began to see a pattern of connections that were flagged to intelligence officials in the US. 

...
The Guardian has been told the FBI and the CIA were slow to appreciate the extensive nature of contacts between Trump’s team and Moscow ahead of the US election. This was in part due to US law that prohibits US agencies from examining the private communications of American citizens without warrants. “They are trained not to do this,” the source stressed.

“It looks like the [US] agencies were asleep,” the source added. “They [the European agencies] were saying: ‘There are contacts going on between people close to Mr Trump and people we believe are Russian intelligence agents. You should be wary of this.’

“The message was: ‘Watch out. There’s something not right here.’”


According to one account, GCHQ’s then head, Robert Hannigan, passed material in summer 2016 to the CIA chief, John Brennan. The matter was deemed so sensitive it was handled at “director level”. After an initially slow start, Brennan used GCHQ information and intelligence from other partners to launch a major inter-agency investigation.

In late August and September Brennan gave a series of classified briefings to the Gang of Eight, the top-ranking Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and Senate. He told them the agency had evidence the Kremlin might be trying to help Trump to win the presidency, the New York Times reported.

One person familiar with the matter said Brennan did not reveal sources but made reference to the fact that America’s intelligence allies had provided information. Trump subsequently learned of GCHQ’s role, the person said.

The person described US intelligence as being “very late to the game”. The FBI’s director, James Comey, altered his position after the election and Trump’s victory, becoming “more affirmative” and with a “higher level of concern”.

Comey’s apparent shift may have followed a mid-October decision by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (Fisa) court to approve a secret surveillance order. The order gave permission for the Department of Justice to investigate two banks suspected of being part of the Kremlin’s undercover influence operation.


According to the BBC, the justice department’s request came after a tipoff from an intelligence agency in one of the Baltic states. This is believed to be Estonia.

The Washington Post reported on Wednesday that the same order covered Carter Page, one of Trump’s associates. It allowed the FBI and the justice department to monitor Page’s communications. Page, a former foreign policy aide, was suspected of being an agent of influence working for Russia, the paper said, citing US officials.

The application covered contacts Page allegedly had in 2013 with a Russian foreign intelligence agent, and other undisclosed meetings with Russian operatives, the Post said. Page denies wrongdoing and complained of “unjustified, politically motivated government surveillance”.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/trump-russia-british-intelligence/index.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">British intelligence passed Trump associates&#8217; communications with Russians on to US counterparts</a></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8211;British and other European intelligence agencies intercepted communications between associates of Donald Trump and Russian officials and other Russian individuals during the campaign and passed on those communications to their US counterparts, US congressional and law enforcement and US and European intelligence sources tell CNN.<br />
The communications were captured during routine surveillance of Russian officials and other Russians known to western intelligence. British and European intelligence agencies, including GCHQ, the British intelligence agency responsible for communications surveillance, were not proactively targeting members of the Trump team but rather picked up these communications during what&#8217;s known as &#8220;incidental collection,&#8221; these sources tell CNN.</p>
<p>The European intelligence agencies detected multiple communications over several months between the Trump associates and Russian individuals &#8212; and passed on that intelligence to the US. The US and Britain are part of the so-called &#8220;Five Eyes&#8221; agreement (along with Canada, Australia and New Zealand), which calls for open sharing among member nations of a broad range of intelligence.<br />
The communications are likely to be scrutinized as part of the Senate Intelligence Committee&#8217;s investigation into Russia&#8217;s efforts to meddle in the 2016 presidential election.</p>
<p>&#8220;If foreign intelligence agencies share information with US intelligence, and it&#8217;s relevant to the investigation, then of course the intelligence committee will look at it,&#8221; a source close to the Senate investigation told CNN.<br />
The Guardian reported earlier Thursday that British alerted US Intel of such contacts.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><br />
British spies were first to spot Trump team&#8217;s links with Russia </a></p>
<blockquote><p>GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.</p>
<p>Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.</p>
<p>The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.</p>
<p>Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors.</p>
<p>It is understood that GCHQ was at no point carrying out a targeted operation against Trump or his team or proactively seeking information. The alleged conversations were picked up by chance as part of routine surveillance of Russian intelligence assets. Over several months, different agencies targeting the same people began to see a pattern of connections that were flagged to intelligence officials in the US. </p>
<p>&#8230;<br />
The Guardian has been told the FBI and the CIA were slow to appreciate the extensive nature of contacts between Trump’s team and Moscow ahead of the US election. This was in part due to US law that prohibits US agencies from examining the private communications of American citizens without warrants. “They are trained not to do this,” the source stressed.</p>
<p>“It looks like the [US] agencies were asleep,” the source added. “They [the European agencies] were saying: ‘There are contacts going on between people close to Mr Trump and people we believe are Russian intelligence agents. You should be wary of this.’</p>
<p>“The message was: ‘Watch out. There’s something not right here.’”</p>
<p>According to one account, GCHQ’s then head, Robert Hannigan, passed material in summer 2016 to the CIA chief, John Brennan. The matter was deemed so sensitive it was handled at “director level”. After an initially slow start, Brennan used GCHQ information and intelligence from other partners to launch a major inter-agency investigation.</p>
<p>In late August and September Brennan gave a series of classified briefings to the Gang of Eight, the top-ranking Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and Senate. He told them the agency had evidence the Kremlin might be trying to help Trump to win the presidency, the New York Times reported.</p>
<p>One person familiar with the matter said Brennan did not reveal sources but made reference to the fact that America’s intelligence allies had provided information. Trump subsequently learned of GCHQ’s role, the person said.</p>
<p>The person described US intelligence as being “very late to the game”. The FBI’s director, James Comey, altered his position after the election and Trump’s victory, becoming “more affirmative” and with a “higher level of concern”.</p>
<p>Comey’s apparent shift may have followed a mid-October decision by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (Fisa) court to approve a secret surveillance order. The order gave permission for the Department of Justice to investigate two banks suspected of being part of the Kremlin’s undercover influence operation.</p>
<p>According to the BBC, the justice department’s request came after a tipoff from an intelligence agency in one of the Baltic states. This is believed to be Estonia.</p>
<p>The Washington Post reported on Wednesday that the same order covered Carter Page, one of Trump’s associates. It allowed the FBI and the justice department to monitor Page’s communications. Page, a former foreign policy aide, was suspected of being an agent of influence working for Russia, the paper said, citing US officials.</p>
<p>The application covered contacts Page allegedly had in 2013 with a Russian foreign intelligence agent, and other undisclosed meetings with Russian operatives, the Post said. Page denies wrongdoing and complained of “unjustified, politically motivated government surveillance”.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/03/27/the-new-mccarthyism-and-hillary-the-neocon/#comment-38693</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2017 18:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63000#comment-38693</guid>
		<description>Absolutely. n/t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely. n/t</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/03/27/the-new-mccarthyism-and-hillary-the-neocon/#comment-38692</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2017 15:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63000#comment-38692</guid>
		<description>If they are proven true, will *you* apply the proper label?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they are proven true, will *you* apply the proper label?</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/03/27/the-new-mccarthyism-and-hillary-the-neocon/#comment-38691</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2017 14:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63000#comment-38691</guid>
		<description>Just someone who thinks like him.

Parry&#039;s bio reveals your basic lefty journalist.  And besides, I&#039;m not saying he&#039;s lying. In fact, I&#039;m with him 100% on the Iran Contra and October Surprise stuff.  I&#039;m just saying that here he&#039;s very cleverly pushing one side of the story, just like Bolshie Bob did.  You know, &quot;alternate facts&quot;, are not necessarily &quot;fake news&quot;.

I&#039;m sure that the Russian government, and Putin in particular, sincerely believe America is out to destroy Russia by frustrating all its legitimate foreign policy goals, and that Obama/Clinton were orchestrating the whole thing. They believe they are in the right and have the moral high ground. They see their meddling in US elections is just fair
turnaround for US interference in Ukranian politics.  If Russia had been involved in Mexican or Canadian elections don&#039;t you think we&#039;d be raising a stink about it?

This isn&#039;t about who&#039;s right or who&#039;s wrong.  Its not about good and evil.  This is all a gray and indistinct area, where morality and boundaries are slippery and there are no heroes or villains.  But its still war, and we all, sooner or later, are going to have to pick sides.

PS
I made some edits in my post and you probably missed them because you were posting at the same time.  You might want to re-read my post above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just someone who thinks like him.</p>
<p>Parry&#8217;s bio reveals your basic lefty journalist.  And besides, I&#8217;m not saying he&#8217;s lying. In fact, I&#8217;m with him 100% on the Iran Contra and October Surprise stuff.  I&#8217;m just saying that here he&#8217;s very cleverly pushing one side of the story, just like Bolshie Bob did.  You know, &#8220;alternate facts&#8221;, are not necessarily &#8220;fake news&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that the Russian government, and Putin in particular, sincerely believe America is out to destroy Russia by frustrating all its legitimate foreign policy goals, and that Obama/Clinton were orchestrating the whole thing. They believe they are in the right and have the moral high ground. They see their meddling in US elections is just fair<br />
turnaround for US interference in Ukranian politics.  If Russia had been involved in Mexican or Canadian elections don&#8217;t you think we&#8217;d be raising a stink about it?</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t about who&#8217;s right or who&#8217;s wrong.  Its not about good and evil.  This is all a gray and indistinct area, where morality and boundaries are slippery and there are no heroes or villains.  But its still war, and we all, sooner or later, are going to have to pick sides.</p>
<p>PS<br />
I made some edits in my post and you probably missed them because you were posting at the same time.  You might want to re-read my post above.</p>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/03/27/the-new-mccarthyism-and-hillary-the-neocon/#comment-38690</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2017 14:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63000#comment-38690</guid>
		<description>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Parry_(journalist)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Parry_(journalist)" rel="nofollow">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Parry_(journalist)</a></p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/03/27/the-new-mccarthyism-and-hillary-the-neocon/#comment-38689</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2017 06:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63000#comment-38689</guid>
		<description>You know, Bolshie Bob. He&#039;s been pushing that line about Obama and Clinton trying to surround and isolate Russia politically (Ukraine&#039;s Orange Revolution), economically (Sanctions) and militarily (NATO).  When I called him on it he told me I was a capitalist tool and never wanted to talk to me again.

Both these pieces sound like they originated in Russia, written by master KGB-trained propagandists. They are out to torpedo Clinton, and support Russian policy in Syria.  Extremely well thought-out and effective (and completely disguised) Kremlin propaganda. The more recent piece invokes the great Liberal bugaboo, McCarthy, to defuse the investigations going on in Congress right now.  The other also tries to exploit traditional Liberal suspicions of Israel and their support of the Palestinian cause to cast doubt on the Clinton &quot;hawkishness&quot; in the middle east. The older article was a campaign piece designed to help Trump.

&lt;blockquote&gt;...the Democratic Party’s continued demonization of Russia and implicitly put the Democrats on the side of escalating New Cold War tensions, such as military support for the fiercely anti-Russian regime in Ukraine which seized power in a 2014 U.S.-backed putsch overthrowing elected President Viktor Yanukovych.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&quot;U.S.-backed putsch&quot;. Can you imagine Obama and Clinton actually masterminding a coup in order to surround and isolate peace-loving Mother Russia? Can there be any doubt where that originated? Manafort did PR consulting work for Yanukovych. Stone worked for the other side (and Wikileaks, too, by his own admission!). It&#039;s likely some of the others had business dealings with the Russians, Tillerson certainly did--big money and oil stuff.  They were doing in E Europe exactly what we are accusing the Russians of doing here and in W Europe: manipulating the local politics.  Except the Trump gang wasn&#039;t working for their country, they were in it for the money. Maybe there wasn&#039;t anything treasonous involved, or even illegal, but they sure have been working overtime to cover it up.  

These pieces reflect the new agitprop style coming out of Russia, not hard core ideological stuff dripping with Cold War Marxist cliches. It&#039;s cleverly aimed at Liberals, designed to instill unease and second thoughts in them by appealing to traditional lefty tropes.  Not only do American Liberals start questioning their own side, American Conservatives get to feed their Benghazi Bullshit Great Liberal Conspiracy Paranoia, too!. Great stuff.  Subtle.

I don&#039;t think there ever was any actual collusion with the Russians on the part of the Trump WH or campaign, I just think they got played for fools by Putin and when that is established to everyone&#039;s satisfaction their followers will claim victory and desperately attempt to distract us from the cover-up.  They expect we&#039;ll be so happy to learn Trump and his gang weren&#039;t actually traitors or spies that we&#039;ll conveniently forget they were on Putin&#039;s payroll, working with the Russians to advance Russian goals--like forgiving them for their Ukraine aggression and lifting those pesky Obama economic sanctions.  Yeah, remember the sanctions?  Is it all starting to come clear now?

It&#039;s a lot like the President&#039;s taxes.  There&#039;s probably nothing in there that&#039;s against the law. But just because he&#039;s not cheating doesn&#039;t mean there isn&#039;t a lot of stuff there he doesn&#039;t want anyone to see. But that&#039;s another story, for another time.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, Bolshie Bob. He&#8217;s been pushing that line about Obama and Clinton trying to surround and isolate Russia politically (Ukraine&#8217;s Orange Revolution), economically (Sanctions) and militarily (NATO).  When I called him on it he told me I was a capitalist tool and never wanted to talk to me again.</p>
<p>Both these pieces sound like they originated in Russia, written by master KGB-trained propagandists. They are out to torpedo Clinton, and support Russian policy in Syria.  Extremely well thought-out and effective (and completely disguised) Kremlin propaganda. The more recent piece invokes the great Liberal bugaboo, McCarthy, to defuse the investigations going on in Congress right now.  The other also tries to exploit traditional Liberal suspicions of Israel and their support of the Palestinian cause to cast doubt on the Clinton &#8220;hawkishness&#8221; in the middle east. The older article was a campaign piece designed to help Trump.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;the Democratic Party’s continued demonization of Russia and implicitly put the Democrats on the side of escalating New Cold War tensions, such as military support for the fiercely anti-Russian regime in Ukraine which seized power in a 2014 U.S.-backed putsch overthrowing elected President Viktor Yanukovych.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;U.S.-backed putsch&#8221;. Can you imagine Obama and Clinton actually masterminding a coup in order to surround and isolate peace-loving Mother Russia? Can there be any doubt where that originated? Manafort did PR consulting work for Yanukovych. Stone worked for the other side (and Wikileaks, too, by his own admission!). It&#8217;s likely some of the others had business dealings with the Russians, Tillerson certainly did&#8211;big money and oil stuff.  They were doing in E Europe exactly what we are accusing the Russians of doing here and in W Europe: manipulating the local politics.  Except the Trump gang wasn&#8217;t working for their country, they were in it for the money. Maybe there wasn&#8217;t anything treasonous involved, or even illegal, but they sure have been working overtime to cover it up.  </p>
<p>These pieces reflect the new agitprop style coming out of Russia, not hard core ideological stuff dripping with Cold War Marxist cliches. It&#8217;s cleverly aimed at Liberals, designed to instill unease and second thoughts in them by appealing to traditional lefty tropes.  Not only do American Liberals start questioning their own side, American Conservatives get to feed their Benghazi Bullshit Great Liberal Conspiracy Paranoia, too!. Great stuff.  Subtle.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there ever was any actual collusion with the Russians on the part of the Trump WH or campaign, I just think they got played for fools by Putin and when that is established to everyone&#8217;s satisfaction their followers will claim victory and desperately attempt to distract us from the cover-up.  They expect we&#8217;ll be so happy to learn Trump and his gang weren&#8217;t actually traitors or spies that we&#8217;ll conveniently forget they were on Putin&#8217;s payroll, working with the Russians to advance Russian goals&#8211;like forgiving them for their Ukraine aggression and lifting those pesky Obama economic sanctions.  Yeah, remember the sanctions?  Is it all starting to come clear now?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a lot like the President&#8217;s taxes.  There&#8217;s probably nothing in there that&#8217;s against the law. But just because he&#8217;s not cheating doesn&#8217;t mean there isn&#8217;t a lot of stuff there he doesn&#8217;t want anyone to see. But that&#8217;s another story, for another time.</p>
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