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	<title>Comments on: The Donald at War</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/</link>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/#comment-38814</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2017 05:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63193#comment-38814</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m no hero  and I&#039;m no expert.

I enlisted for 2 years in the Navy Reserve when I flunked out of college so I could avoid being drafted in the infantry for the same length of time. I could have married my girlfriend and gotten her pregnant, thus avoiding the draft, but I knew I was not ready to be a father, and certainly not for such a self-serving reason.  

If a 4 or 6 year Regular Navy enlistment had been my only option, I would have taken my chances with the grunts. Minimizing my stay in the military was my primary motivation, but avoiding combat and packing 80 pounds of gear in the bush was a very close second.

I can&#039;t say I did so for any moral or political reasons. At the time, I was not opposed to the Vietnam war.  I actually believed all that Domino Theory bullshit.

The only thing I can say for myself is that I did not ever consider going to Canada, or faking a religious or medical exemption, a family deferment or claiming a conscientious objector status (an honorable option, but I just wasn&#039;t one).  Almost everyone I knew was going through this at the time.  I was 19, doing the right thing seemed very important, I knew I would have to justify whatever actionI took to myself for the rest of my life.

I knew I had to go, and I had to serve as best I could if I did.  I took my oath seriously, I would have followed whatever orders where given to me, but I was determined to use any legal means possible to ensure I got out alive and as quickly as possible.

Even after all these years, I have to make my position and choices perfectly clear.  I owe that much to the guys who came back all fucked up, or didn&#039;t come back at all. At the very least, I can honestly say that I showed up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m no hero  and I&#8217;m no expert.</p>
<p>I enlisted for 2 years in the Navy Reserve when I flunked out of college so I could avoid being drafted in the infantry for the same length of time. I could have married my girlfriend and gotten her pregnant, thus avoiding the draft, but I knew I was not ready to be a father, and certainly not for such a self-serving reason.  </p>
<p>If a 4 or 6 year Regular Navy enlistment had been my only option, I would have taken my chances with the grunts. Minimizing my stay in the military was my primary motivation, but avoiding combat and packing 80 pounds of gear in the bush was a very close second.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say I did so for any moral or political reasons. At the time, I was not opposed to the Vietnam war.  I actually believed all that Domino Theory bullshit.</p>
<p>The only thing I can say for myself is that I did not ever consider going to Canada, or faking a religious or medical exemption, a family deferment or claiming a conscientious objector status (an honorable option, but I just wasn&#8217;t one).  Almost everyone I knew was going through this at the time.  I was 19, doing the right thing seemed very important, I knew I would have to justify whatever actionI took to myself for the rest of my life.</p>
<p>I knew I had to go, and I had to serve as best I could if I did.  I took my oath seriously, I would have followed whatever orders where given to me, but I was determined to use any legal means possible to ensure I got out alive and as quickly as possible.</p>
<p>Even after all these years, I have to make my position and choices perfectly clear.  I owe that much to the guys who came back all fucked up, or didn&#8217;t come back at all. At the very least, I can honestly say that I showed up.</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/#comment-38804</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2017 02:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63193#comment-38804</guid>
		<description>In the end, I bow to the judgement of folks like yourself and ER, who&#039;ve worn the uniform and walked the walk. Anything I post about military matters as &quot;my 2 cents&quot; (as above) is actually worth considerably less than that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the end, I bow to the judgement of folks like yourself and ER, who&#8217;ve worn the uniform and walked the walk. Anything I post about military matters as &#8220;my 2 cents&#8221; (as above) is actually worth considerably less than that!</p>
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		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/#comment-38801</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2017 02:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63193#comment-38801</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know enough about the facts on the ground to suggest a military strategy.  My instinct would be one that furthered American aims in the region, helped get rid of Assad, and killed as few people as possible, both civilians and military. This is exactly what Obama tried, although he was outmaneuvered by the Russians intervening on Syria&#039;s side and offering to destroy the chemical stockpiles instead. 

What Trump does doesn&#039;t have to be fully successful either, just get us off the hook for talking tough prematurely. Killing Arabs is counterproductive, and killing Russians only puts them on the spot to retaliate. I would go after installations that pump, refine or store jet fuel: refineries, pipelines, pumping stations, tank farms, tanker port facilities; and ammo dumps.  Casualties would be minimized since these facilities are usually kept away from populated areas anyway.  And the Russian air force could go home with minimal casualties and their honor intact.

Its unlikely we would be able to completely cripple the Syrian war effort, I&#039;m sure they have their assets spread out, and well hidden and defended (although mostly from ground attack).  But it would slow it down.

You&#039;re right, perhaps Obama had the wrong Syria policy, but I don&#039;t think Trump even has one at all.  At the very least, he has had to do a complete about-face on Assad and Putin to justify his current saber rattling.  Right now, whatever he does will have to depend on the Russians not doing anything militarily to counteract it.  We have little control over that, and little choice but to escalate should they choose to do so.  The scary part is that they may have little control over their own response.  If we give them a bloody nose they&#039;re going to be forced to get up off the canvas and come after us.

In a game of chicken, you have to give your opponent a way to save face or you may both wind up dead.  Of course, if Trump thinks getting our way in Syria is worth risking all-out war with Russia, or another generation of Cold War, or even a humiliating and expensive defeat with all the long-term consequences that entails, then...well, that&#039;s why we pay Presidents the big bucks.  Personally, I don&#039;t think he&#039;s capable of getting it right.

Trump may be right to blame this all on Obama, but that&#039;s irrelevant, now.  It&#039;s not going to help him now to blame anyone else, its his problem, and unlike his predecessor, or Hillary, Trump doesn&#039;t seem to be giving himself any way to back out gracefully.  The biggest risk of all is not leaving the job undone, or even failing altogether; its painting yourself into a corner from which there is no escape.

That&#039;s what happened to Bush in Iraq, and what Obama tried to avoid.  Now Trump is going to have to come up with another alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know enough about the facts on the ground to suggest a military strategy.  My instinct would be one that furthered American aims in the region, helped get rid of Assad, and killed as few people as possible, both civilians and military. This is exactly what Obama tried, although he was outmaneuvered by the Russians intervening on Syria&#8217;s side and offering to destroy the chemical stockpiles instead. </p>
<p>What Trump does doesn&#8217;t have to be fully successful either, just get us off the hook for talking tough prematurely. Killing Arabs is counterproductive, and killing Russians only puts them on the spot to retaliate. I would go after installations that pump, refine or store jet fuel: refineries, pipelines, pumping stations, tank farms, tanker port facilities; and ammo dumps.  Casualties would be minimized since these facilities are usually kept away from populated areas anyway.  And the Russian air force could go home with minimal casualties and their honor intact.</p>
<p>Its unlikely we would be able to completely cripple the Syrian war effort, I&#8217;m sure they have their assets spread out, and well hidden and defended (although mostly from ground attack).  But it would slow it down.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, perhaps Obama had the wrong Syria policy, but I don&#8217;t think Trump even has one at all.  At the very least, he has had to do a complete about-face on Assad and Putin to justify his current saber rattling.  Right now, whatever he does will have to depend on the Russians not doing anything militarily to counteract it.  We have little control over that, and little choice but to escalate should they choose to do so.  The scary part is that they may have little control over their own response.  If we give them a bloody nose they&#8217;re going to be forced to get up off the canvas and come after us.</p>
<p>In a game of chicken, you have to give your opponent a way to save face or you may both wind up dead.  Of course, if Trump thinks getting our way in Syria is worth risking all-out war with Russia, or another generation of Cold War, or even a humiliating and expensive defeat with all the long-term consequences that entails, then&#8230;well, that&#8217;s why we pay Presidents the big bucks.  Personally, I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s capable of getting it right.</p>
<p>Trump may be right to blame this all on Obama, but that&#8217;s irrelevant, now.  It&#8217;s not going to help him now to blame anyone else, its his problem, and unlike his predecessor, or Hillary, Trump doesn&#8217;t seem to be giving himself any way to back out gracefully.  The biggest risk of all is not leaving the job undone, or even failing altogether; its painting yourself into a corner from which there is no escape.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what happened to Bush in Iraq, and what Obama tried to avoid.  Now Trump is going to have to come up with another alternative.</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/#comment-38798</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2017 01:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63193#comment-38798</guid>
		<description>Hillary recommends taking out Syrian airfields...many of the same fields, one might presume, where Russian forces have been seen. I wonder how many Russians we can kill before Moscow decides that the relationship with Trump was a mistake. (Hillary&#039;s in that enviable position, of course--like you and I--where we can make all kinds of terrible suggestions and there are no consequences.)

Tillerson&#039;s recent advice to Russia can, I think, be usefully generalized for all concerned: consider things very carefully. Perhaps a question worth pondering is, just how much tragedy do we have to cause in order to feel good about our response to the Syrian massacre?

Anywho, a while ago Bill Mahar rightly characterized Trump as a man &quot;with the impulse control of a grease fire.&quot; But in the coming weeks and months, Trump may have to thread some rather fine needles, diplomatically speaking, lest we invoke the rage of the Russian Bear and the Chinese Dragon simultaneously. I humbly submit that at times like this, the person we want in charge is more &quot;No Drama Obama,&quot; and less &quot;Terrible Twos Trump.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hillary recommends taking out Syrian airfields&#8230;many of the same fields, one might presume, where Russian forces have been seen. I wonder how many Russians we can kill before Moscow decides that the relationship with Trump was a mistake. (Hillary&#8217;s in that enviable position, of course&#8211;like you and I&#8211;where we can make all kinds of terrible suggestions and there are no consequences.)</p>
<p>Tillerson&#8217;s recent advice to Russia can, I think, be usefully generalized for all concerned: consider things very carefully. Perhaps a question worth pondering is, just how much tragedy do we have to cause in order to feel good about our response to the Syrian massacre?</p>
<p>Anywho, a while ago Bill Mahar rightly characterized Trump as a man &#8220;with the impulse control of a grease fire.&#8221; But in the coming weeks and months, Trump may have to thread some rather fine needles, diplomatically speaking, lest we invoke the rage of the Russian Bear and the Chinese Dragon simultaneously. I humbly submit that at times like this, the person we want in charge is more &#8220;No Drama Obama,&#8221; and less &#8220;Terrible Twos Trump.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/#comment-38794</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2017 00:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63193#comment-38794</guid>
		<description>Happened to be in the neighborhood</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happened to be in the neighborhood</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/#comment-38793</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2017 00:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63193#comment-38793</guid>
		<description>Moved. You can does this in the edit window, right side, scroll down, assign one, or more, boards. 

Don&#039;t worry &#039;bout it, though, I suspect the new ship is going to be way different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moved. You can does this in the edit window, right side, scroll down, assign one, or more, boards. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t worry &#8217;bout it, though, I suspect the new ship is going to be way different.</p>
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		<title>By: RL</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/#comment-38792</link>
		<dc:creator>RL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2017 00:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63193#comment-38792</guid>
		<description>Damn, how&#039;s that for fast service...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, how&#8217;s that for fast service&#8230;?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/#comment-38791</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2017 00:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63193#comment-38791</guid>
		<description>Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/#comment-38790</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2017 00:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63193#comment-38790</guid>
		<description>Yes. Sorry.  Can someone move it for me?

I could have sworn I was in CE when I pressed the button.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. Sorry.  Can someone move it for me?</p>
<p>I could have sworn I was in CE when I pressed the button.</p>
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		<title>By: RL</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/04/06/the-donald-at-war/#comment-38789</link>
		<dc:creator>RL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2017 00:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=63193#comment-38789</guid>
		<description>Meant for current events?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meant for current events?</p>
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