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	<title>Comments on: Is anybody watching the Ken Burns PBS series on the Vietnam War?</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/09/18/is-anybody-watching-the-ken-burns-pbs-series-on-the-vietnam-war/</link>
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		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/09/18/is-anybody-watching-the-ken-burns-pbs-series-on-the-vietnam-war/#comment-40203</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2017 20:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=66853#comment-40203</guid>
		<description>They documented the whole sordid history of our Vietnam experience, not just how it got started, but how they kept on making the same mistakes long after they realized they were mistakes.  It wasn&#039;t about freedom, or national interest, or even fighting World Communism (although initially it might have been perceived that way by the flag-waving ideologues and professional patriots).

It was really a cover-your-ass narrative of missed opportunities and poorly, desperately concealed fuck-ups.  Just like the Bush Baby in Iraq.  The Domino Theory was the analogue of WMDs. I wonder if our current obsession with Korea is going to turn out the. same way. Iran certainly seems to be headed down the same road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They documented the whole sordid history of our Vietnam experience, not just how it got started, but how they kept on making the same mistakes long after they realized they were mistakes.  It wasn&#8217;t about freedom, or national interest, or even fighting World Communism (although initially it might have been perceived that way by the flag-waving ideologues and professional patriots).</p>
<p>It was really a cover-your-ass narrative of missed opportunities and poorly, desperately concealed fuck-ups.  Just like the Bush Baby in Iraq.  The Domino Theory was the analogue of WMDs. I wonder if our current obsession with Korea is going to turn out the. same way. Iran certainly seems to be headed down the same road.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/09/18/is-anybody-watching-the-ken-burns-pbs-series-on-the-vietnam-war/#comment-40201</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=66853#comment-40201</guid>
		<description>Reread Halberstam&#039;s &quot;The Best and the Brightest&quot; earlier this year, and it&#039;s still the definitive story of how, as you sum it up, we ended up supporting the wrong side. It was a terrible blunder to weigh in on the side of colonialism instead of supporting national liberation movements. Even if they did sometimes have funny economic ideas, the kind of thing that&#039;s attractive in an agrarian society and leads to reform, not of much interest in &quot;advanced&quot; industrialized societies.

I think once again we see the heavy hand of &quot;capitalist interests&quot; at work, a generally unconscious conspiracy of aligned interests and unquestioned worldviews among those who hold power. Kennedy saw Vietnam and the Communist North through the eyes of a wealthy capitalist; not outright hostile, even intellectually sympathetic, but blinkered by visceral class self-interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reread Halberstam&#8217;s &#8220;The Best and the Brightest&#8221; earlier this year, and it&#8217;s still the definitive story of how, as you sum it up, we ended up supporting the wrong side. It was a terrible blunder to weigh in on the side of colonialism instead of supporting national liberation movements. Even if they did sometimes have funny economic ideas, the kind of thing that&#8217;s attractive in an agrarian society and leads to reform, not of much interest in &#8220;advanced&#8221; industrialized societies.</p>
<p>I think once again we see the heavy hand of &#8220;capitalist interests&#8221; at work, a generally unconscious conspiracy of aligned interests and unquestioned worldviews among those who hold power. Kennedy saw Vietnam and the Communist North through the eyes of a wealthy capitalist; not outright hostile, even intellectually sympathetic, but blinkered by visceral class self-interest.</p>
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		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/09/18/is-anybody-watching-the-ken-burns-pbs-series-on-the-vietnam-war/#comment-40194</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2017 03:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=66853#comment-40194</guid>
		<description>After two episodes, it hasn&#039;t really told me anything I didn&#039;t already know, although it is put together with the typical Ken Burns class and thoroughness.  I wouldn&#039;t say it was important to watch it, unless you weren&#039;t old enough at the time to understand the events&#039; significance as they were happening.

If you are the type that is convinced we lost because the &quot;military had its hands tied&quot;, &quot;we were betrayed&quot;,  and &quot;traitors sabotaged the war effort, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory&quot; then I suppose you will be disappointed. Sad, because if you are of that persuasion, then you really do need to watch it.

The war is important because it created the counter-culture, demolished the myths of American invincibility, self-righteousness and exceptionalism, and because after it was over it could no longer be denied that our government was certainly capable of lying to us, sometimes for no good reason.  Viet Nam, even more than Watergate, established that the government could not be trusted and that only a liberal press could keep it honest.

The first episode (which outlines Vietnamese history under the French and Japanese) has convinced me of something I&#039;ve suspected 
all along:  we really DID need to go to Viet Nam, we just fought on the wrong side. If we had read the evidence with a little less paranoia, we could have driven a wedge into World Communism and defeated it years earlier than we actually did.  As it was, our involvement there only unnecessarily prolonged the Cold War.  

Viet Nam, like the Second Gulf War, was a terrific blunder we are still paying the price for. And until we understand that, and why, we will continue making those blunders. I&#039;m certainly not saying I was smart enough to see that truth while it unfolded.  I was as wrong about the Domino Theory as I was about the Weapons of Mass Destruction 40 years later.  But at least in the latter case, it didn&#039;t take me anywhere near as long to catch on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After two episodes, it hasn&#8217;t really told me anything I didn&#8217;t already know, although it is put together with the typical Ken Burns class and thoroughness.  I wouldn&#8217;t say it was important to watch it, unless you weren&#8217;t old enough at the time to understand the events&#8217; significance as they were happening.</p>
<p>If you are the type that is convinced we lost because the &#8220;military had its hands tied&#8221;, &#8220;we were betrayed&#8221;,  and &#8220;traitors sabotaged the war effort, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory&#8221; then I suppose you will be disappointed. Sad, because if you are of that persuasion, then you really do need to watch it.</p>
<p>The war is important because it created the counter-culture, demolished the myths of American invincibility, self-righteousness and exceptionalism, and because after it was over it could no longer be denied that our government was certainly capable of lying to us, sometimes for no good reason.  Viet Nam, even more than Watergate, established that the government could not be trusted and that only a liberal press could keep it honest.</p>
<p>The first episode (which outlines Vietnamese history under the French and Japanese) has convinced me of something I&#8217;ve suspected<br />
all along:  we really DID need to go to Viet Nam, we just fought on the wrong side. If we had read the evidence with a little less paranoia, we could have driven a wedge into World Communism and defeated it years earlier than we actually did.  As it was, our involvement there only unnecessarily prolonged the Cold War.  </p>
<p>Viet Nam, like the Second Gulf War, was a terrific blunder we are still paying the price for. And until we understand that, and why, we will continue making those blunders. I&#8217;m certainly not saying I was smart enough to see that truth while it unfolded.  I was as wrong about the Domino Theory as I was about the Weapons of Mass Destruction 40 years later.  But at least in the latter case, it didn&#8217;t take me anywhere near as long to catch on.</p>
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		<title>By: RL</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/09/18/is-anybody-watching-the-ken-burns-pbs-series-on-the-vietnam-war/#comment-40193</link>
		<dc:creator>RL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2017 02:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=66853#comment-40193</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t tell me which side won....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t tell me which side won&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2017/09/18/is-anybody-watching-the-ken-burns-pbs-series-on-the-vietnam-war/#comment-40192</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2017 02:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=66853#comment-40192</guid>
		<description>All the reviews I&#039;ve read so far stressed the &lt;i&gt;importance&lt;/i&gt; of watching it, like a civic obligation, and that makes it weigh even heavier, like I have to be a responsible citizen and not start watching until I can be sure I&#039;ll be able to &quot;attend&quot; for &lt;i&gt;eighteen weeks&lt;/i&gt; in a row.

OTOH, I have a PBS app, and it usually lets me catch up episodes. Another way to do this is wait until there are a few episodes on the shelves, then watch a burst of them.

But no, sorry hank, not ready yet. I&#039;ll watch the other reviews here, chastely averting mine eyes from that which might spoil them, to gauge the urgency.

Your post was empty. I was hoping you&#039;d have an opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the reviews I&#8217;ve read so far stressed the <i>importance</i> of watching it, like a civic obligation, and that makes it weigh even heavier, like I have to be a responsible citizen and not start watching until I can be sure I&#8217;ll be able to &#8220;attend&#8221; for <i>eighteen weeks</i> in a row.</p>
<p>OTOH, I have a PBS app, and it usually lets me catch up episodes. Another way to do this is wait until there are a few episodes on the shelves, then watch a burst of them.</p>
<p>But no, sorry hank, not ready yet. I&#8217;ll watch the other reviews here, chastely averting mine eyes from that which might spoil them, to gauge the urgency.</p>
<p>Your post was empty. I was hoping you&#8217;d have an opinion.</p>
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