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	<title>Comments on: Islands in the Stream</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2018/06/05/islands-in-the-stream/</link>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2018/06/05/islands-in-the-stream/#comment-41633</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2018 00:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=71249#comment-41633</guid>
		<description>in the close confines of a cluster, the most massive stars quickly evolve and go supernovae.  The less massive main-sequence stars with longer lifetimes may get thoroughly irradiated early in the cluster&#039;s history, but eventually conditions will settle down and they will have a chance to evolve life.  Early in a cluster&#039;s history, conditions may be hostile for the origin of life, but in old clusters, (and the globs are OLD!)things have been pretty quiet for a very long while.  

We know elements heavier than iron are only formed in supernova explosions,so it is likely the earth (solar nebula) was exposed to all sorts of cataclysmic events, and yet we know life evolved here.
It just arose later, after the neighborhood settled down..

And all those novae will have scattered a lot of metals into the environment.  But the article does have a point, in open clusters, biogenesis may not occur until the older cluster stars &quot;evaporate&quot; into the disk population as galactic tidal forces disperse the cluster.  The article may have a point about the early cluster environment not being optimal for biogenesis, but its conclusions about our uniqueness are almost certainly wrong.

Life probably did not arise on earth until after Sol was ejected from its parent OC.  The GCs are more gravitationally bound, hence longer lived.  But they are older, more massive, and much larger (hundreds of thousands vs thousands of stars).

I certainly haven&#039;t worked out the details, but I would guess the biggest constraint on biogenesis in any cluster is the metallicity of the cluster.  As long as there is some metal in the cluster interstellar medium, life is possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in the close confines of a cluster, the most massive stars quickly evolve and go supernovae.  The less massive main-sequence stars with longer lifetimes may get thoroughly irradiated early in the cluster&#8217;s history, but eventually conditions will settle down and they will have a chance to evolve life.  Early in a cluster&#8217;s history, conditions may be hostile for the origin of life, but in old clusters, (and the globs are OLD!)things have been pretty quiet for a very long while.  </p>
<p>We know elements heavier than iron are only formed in supernova explosions,so it is likely the earth (solar nebula) was exposed to all sorts of cataclysmic events, and yet we know life evolved here.<br />
It just arose later, after the neighborhood settled down..</p>
<p>And all those novae will have scattered a lot of metals into the environment.  But the article does have a point, in open clusters, biogenesis may not occur until the older cluster stars &#8220;evaporate&#8221; into the disk population as galactic tidal forces disperse the cluster.  The article may have a point about the early cluster environment not being optimal for biogenesis, but its conclusions about our uniqueness are almost certainly wrong.</p>
<p>Life probably did not arise on earth until after Sol was ejected from its parent OC.  The GCs are more gravitationally bound, hence longer lived.  But they are older, more massive, and much larger (hundreds of thousands vs thousands of stars).</p>
<p>I certainly haven&#8217;t worked out the details, but I would guess the biggest constraint on biogenesis in any cluster is the metallicity of the cluster.  As long as there is some metal in the cluster interstellar medium, life is possible.</p>
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		<title>By: RL</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2018/06/05/islands-in-the-stream/#comment-41627</link>
		<dc:creator>RL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2018 22:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=71249#comment-41627</guid>
		<description>I might be able to find it again, but the essence of it was a statistical argument that indicated that the chances were very high that any given solar system would be sterilized by a cosmic cataclysm (nearby supernova, gamma ray burst etc) once every few hundred million years- the conclusion was that we were only here because of exceedingly good luck- we had won the lottery... the implication being that this statistical argument perhaps explained the Fermi Paradox...

I cant vouch for their assumptions, or the probabilities they assigned to various dis-asters - but it seems to me that solar systems in the more densely populated clusters would require a great deal more luck to avoid such cataclysms...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might be able to find it again, but the essence of it was a statistical argument that indicated that the chances were very high that any given solar system would be sterilized by a cosmic cataclysm (nearby supernova, gamma ray burst etc) once every few hundred million years- the conclusion was that we were only here because of exceedingly good luck- we had won the lottery&#8230; the implication being that this statistical argument perhaps explained the Fermi Paradox&#8230;</p>
<p>I cant vouch for their assumptions, or the probabilities they assigned to various dis-asters &#8211; but it seems to me that solar systems in the more densely populated clusters would require a great deal more luck to avoid such cataclysms&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2018/06/05/islands-in-the-stream/#comment-41546</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2018 12:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=71249#comment-41546</guid>
		<description>This new analysis has yet to be confirmed, and it brings in an entirely new observation which has to also be verified: the use of statistics based on supernovae.  It also fails to explain the shortage of metals in spectra of Population II stars, which still suggests they are early stellar members of the Galaxy. 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallicity

However, even if the Halo Population is just a little younger than we thought, it raises the possibility that some of them might have rocky planets.

And there are other SETI consequences.  Since globulars are so old, it means they have had more time to evolve life.  This might partially make up for the relatively metal-free interstellar medium in the young globular environment. Also, stars in a globular cluster are so close together that it is reasonable to assume any civilizations arising there would have had the opportunity to colonize other cluster members, giving the opportunity for those civilizations to survive planetary catastrophes due to astronomical or societal convulsions.  It also gives us more opportunities to eavesdrop on intra-cluster communications.

This discovery is no magic bullet or smoking gun, but it does increase the odds in ET life&#039;s favor--as almost everything we&#039;ve learned in the last half-century does.  Still, we must keep in mind, increased odds for life in the Cosmos does not necessarily mean increased possibility for SETI.  As I have come to be more inclined to believe lately, (on purely circumstantial evidence) life is common, but intelligence is not.  There is no reason to suggest that ETI is impossible, after all, we already won that lottery! But there is no compelling reason to believe sentient creatures and technical societies share the Milky Way with us, or at least, are contemporary with us.

I really hate to think so, but we may be the only game in town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This new analysis has yet to be confirmed, and it brings in an entirely new observation which has to also be verified: the use of statistics based on supernovae.  It also fails to explain the shortage of metals in spectra of Population II stars, which still suggests they are early stellar members of the Galaxy. </p>
<p> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallicity" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallicity</a></p>
<p>However, even if the Halo Population is just a little younger than we thought, it raises the possibility that some of them might have rocky planets.</p>
<p>And there are other SETI consequences.  Since globulars are so old, it means they have had more time to evolve life.  This might partially make up for the relatively metal-free interstellar medium in the young globular environment. Also, stars in a globular cluster are so close together that it is reasonable to assume any civilizations arising there would have had the opportunity to colonize other cluster members, giving the opportunity for those civilizations to survive planetary catastrophes due to astronomical or societal convulsions.  It also gives us more opportunities to eavesdrop on intra-cluster communications.</p>
<p>This discovery is no magic bullet or smoking gun, but it does increase the odds in ET life&#8217;s favor&#8211;as almost everything we&#8217;ve learned in the last half-century does.  Still, we must keep in mind, increased odds for life in the Cosmos does not necessarily mean increased possibility for SETI.  As I have come to be more inclined to believe lately, (on purely circumstantial evidence) life is common, but intelligence is not.  There is no reason to suggest that ETI is impossible, after all, we already won that lottery! But there is no compelling reason to believe sentient creatures and technical societies share the Milky Way with us, or at least, are contemporary with us.</p>
<p>I really hate to think so, but we may be the only game in town.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2018/06/05/islands-in-the-stream/#comment-41545</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2018 02:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I admit I was a little baffled by significance of the story; maybe the &quot;massive implications for SETI!&quot; threw me off the scent. It seemed to change a number in the Drake Equation, but I wasn&#039;t seeing the connection with metal-rich stars as better targets for SETI. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admit I was a little baffled by significance of the story; maybe the &#8220;massive implications for SETI!&#8221; threw me off the scent. It seemed to change a number in the Drake Equation, but I wasn&#8217;t seeing the connection with metal-rich stars as better targets for SETI. Thanks.</p>
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