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	<title>Comments on: Keep your fingers crossed for today&#8217;s launch&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2020/05/26/keep-your-fingers-crossed-for-todays-launch/#comment-44666</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2020 15:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=82007#comment-44666</guid>
		<description>Spam in a can, fifty years on</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spam in a can, fifty years on</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2020/05/26/keep-your-fingers-crossed-for-todays-launch/#comment-44665</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2020 14:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=82007#comment-44665</guid>
		<description>&quot;All of our representives are busy...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;All of our representives are busy&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2020/05/26/keep-your-fingers-crossed-for-todays-launch/#comment-44663</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2020 13:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=82007#comment-44663</guid>
		<description>&quot;Our options have changed, please listen carefully...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Our options have changed, please listen carefully&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2020/05/26/keep-your-fingers-crossed-for-todays-launch/#comment-44660</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2020 03:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=82007#comment-44660</guid>
		<description>Remember how the Mercury Seven baulked because there was no window on their capsule? That they didn&#039;t want to be Laika or a monkey strapped in for a ride? But they were test pilots. 

Orbital insertion should be routine enough that the computer can do it. 

But yeah, where&#039;s the manual over-ride?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember how the Mercury Seven baulked because there was no window on their capsule? That they didn&#8217;t want to be Laika or a monkey strapped in for a ride? But they were test pilots. </p>
<p>Orbital insertion should be routine enough that the computer can do it. </p>
<p>But yeah, where&#8217;s the manual over-ride?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2020/05/26/keep-your-fingers-crossed-for-todays-launch/#comment-44659</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2020 02:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=82007#comment-44659</guid>
		<description>&#039;Course, this (scrubbed) mission was the first test flight with humans aboard, so Bob and Doug were test pilots. Their job was to observe how the automation performed and report back; and to take over if Hal failed (as long as the touchscreens continued to work).

The first test flight of the Crew Dragon sent a mannequin to the ISS, where it docked perfectly. Here&#039;s an ISS crew member snapping publicity photos for SpaceX:&lt;img src=&quot;https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/SpaceX_Crew_Dragon_Demo-1_Hatch_Open.jpg/640px-SpaceX_Crew_Dragon_Demo-1_Hatch_Open.jpg&quot; /&gt;(StarMannequin to the left). Thus, Demo-1 proved conclusively that the Crew Dragon doesn&#039;t need a crew, just a cargo of human flesh.

Considering all that, I guess Bob N&#039; Doug were to prove that human flesh could be delivered to ISS aboard a Dragon. And then SpaceX Commuter lines would be open for business.

I think you&#039;re setting the bar too high, judging the Crew Dragon by the standards of &quot;a true man-machine symbiosis capable of exploring the solar system&quot;. That isn&#039;t what it&#039;s for, it&#039;s just a commuter bus to schlep humans to ISS. That&#039;s the contract Musk signed with NASA, and I expect he&#039;ll deliver.

To be fair, here&#039;s the interior of the competition, a Boeing &quot;Starliner&quot;:&lt;img src=&quot;https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-QF027_1011bo_GR_20161011123038.jpg&quot; style=&quot;width:640px&quot; /&gt;

OMG, is that a fire extinguisher I see? And looks like another touch screen bank.

Just had a thought: Maybe NASA mandated the touch screen interface, and they&#039;re mandating a common user interface? That would make a hell of a lot of sense, allowing astronauts to receive basic training on a generic spacecraft interface. 

I would expect SpaceX and Boeing to bid on the eventual Boots Back On The Moon Again Tour(tm) using more sophisticated designs based on the chassis they&#039;re currently testing. Makes sense, improves reliability and keeps costs down to not start from scratch every time you define a new space mission. The Crew Dragon is derived from the cargo model, and the next one might come closer to satisfying your (our) hunger for a &quot;a true man-machine symbiosis capable of exploring the solar system&quot;. Patience.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Course, this (scrubbed) mission was the first test flight with humans aboard, so Bob and Doug were test pilots. Their job was to observe how the automation performed and report back; and to take over if Hal failed (as long as the touchscreens continued to work).</p>
<p>The first test flight of the Crew Dragon sent a mannequin to the ISS, where it docked perfectly. Here&#8217;s an ISS crew member snapping publicity photos for SpaceX:<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/SpaceX_Crew_Dragon_Demo-1_Hatch_Open.jpg/640px-SpaceX_Crew_Dragon_Demo-1_Hatch_Open.jpg" />(StarMannequin to the left). Thus, Demo-1 proved conclusively that the Crew Dragon doesn&#8217;t need a crew, just a cargo of human flesh.</p>
<p>Considering all that, I guess Bob N&#8217; Doug were to prove that human flesh could be delivered to ISS aboard a Dragon. And then SpaceX Commuter lines would be open for business.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re setting the bar too high, judging the Crew Dragon by the standards of &#8220;a true man-machine symbiosis capable of exploring the solar system&#8221;. That isn&#8217;t what it&#8217;s for, it&#8217;s just a commuter bus to schlep humans to ISS. That&#8217;s the contract Musk signed with NASA, and I expect he&#8217;ll deliver.</p>
<p>To be fair, here&#8217;s the interior of the competition, a Boeing &#8220;Starliner&#8221;:<img src="https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-QF027_1011bo_GR_20161011123038.jpg" style="width:640px" /></p>
<p>OMG, is that a fire extinguisher I see? And looks like another touch screen bank.</p>
<p>Just had a thought: Maybe NASA mandated the touch screen interface, and they&#8217;re mandating a common user interface? That would make a hell of a lot of sense, allowing astronauts to receive basic training on a generic spacecraft interface. </p>
<p>I would expect SpaceX and Boeing to bid on the eventual Boots Back On The Moon Again Tour(tm) using more sophisticated designs based on the chassis they&#8217;re currently testing. Makes sense, improves reliability and keeps costs down to not start from scratch every time you define a new space mission. The Crew Dragon is derived from the cargo model, and the next one might come closer to satisfying your (our) hunger for a &#8220;a true man-machine symbiosis capable of exploring the solar system&#8221;. Patience.</p>
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		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2020/05/26/keep-your-fingers-crossed-for-todays-launch/#comment-44658</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2020 17:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=82007#comment-44658</guid>
		<description>In the event of an Apollo 13 type emergency, are the astronauts going to be able to jury-rig a series of interlocking kludges, patches and work-arounds to get home?  Will they have the training, will the ship be comprehensible to human senses, will its systems respond to manual intervention?

I hate to flog a dead horse, but I believe these are very serious design issues and we are going astray here.  I&#039;ve always heard the whole purpose of a manned space program was to handle unanticipated emergencies (and opportunities!) by having humans aboard, whether they were pilots, mechanics, scientists...or warriors.

If the Spacex is just an automated cattle car, a delivery shuttle and life support for inert slabs of human flesh, then we are doing little to build up a true man-machine symbiosis capable of exploring the solar system.  

I&#039;ll bet there isn&#039;t a fire extinguisher, screwdriver or a flashlight in that sleek, modernistic, IKEA-designed cabin. Its nothing but pretty Norwegian Wood interior decoration for the paying passengers and the travel brochure.

Bf 109G cockpit

&lt;img src=&quot;https://live.staticflickr.com/4195/34040055593_d42ebe667a_b.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;,&quot; /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the event of an Apollo 13 type emergency, are the astronauts going to be able to jury-rig a series of interlocking kludges, patches and work-arounds to get home?  Will they have the training, will the ship be comprehensible to human senses, will its systems respond to manual intervention?</p>
<p>I hate to flog a dead horse, but I believe these are very serious design issues and we are going astray here.  I&#8217;ve always heard the whole purpose of a manned space program was to handle unanticipated emergencies (and opportunities!) by having humans aboard, whether they were pilots, mechanics, scientists&#8230;or warriors.</p>
<p>If the Spacex is just an automated cattle car, a delivery shuttle and life support for inert slabs of human flesh, then we are doing little to build up a true man-machine symbiosis capable of exploring the solar system.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll bet there isn&#8217;t a fire extinguisher, screwdriver or a flashlight in that sleek, modernistic, IKEA-designed cabin. Its nothing but pretty Norwegian Wood interior decoration for the paying passengers and the travel brochure.</p>
<p>Bf 109G cockpit</p>
<p><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/4195/34040055593_d42ebe667a_b.jpg" alt="," /></p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2020/05/26/keep-your-fingers-crossed-for-todays-launch/#comment-44656</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2020 16:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=82007#comment-44656</guid>
		<description>Have to agree with your observations. PC games work with a mouse by default, usually with some kind of mouse-clickable button interface like the Dragon seems to have (in touch screen form). But even barely serious gamers invest in joysticks to create that necessary kinesthetic feedback loop. If you command your joystick hand to roll left, and the screen rolls left, your inner ear will react accordingly.

I come back to the fact that the Dragon is an automated commuter bus, and really doesn&#039;t need to be flown at all. I&#039;d wager the displays mostly show status information, with few actual controls. A closeup of the hardware panel below the displays shows mostly indicator lights that probably back up the flat panels, like &quot;Deorbit burn&quot;; the most critical info.

Come to think of it, the Tesla has an &quot;autopilot&quot; mode that does a lot of the work of driving. If Tesla made a bus, it would look a lot like a Crew Dragon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have to agree with your observations. PC games work with a mouse by default, usually with some kind of mouse-clickable button interface like the Dragon seems to have (in touch screen form). But even barely serious gamers invest in joysticks to create that necessary kinesthetic feedback loop. If you command your joystick hand to roll left, and the screen rolls left, your inner ear will react accordingly.</p>
<p>I come back to the fact that the Dragon is an automated commuter bus, and really doesn&#8217;t need to be flown at all. I&#8217;d wager the displays mostly show status information, with few actual controls. A closeup of the hardware panel below the displays shows mostly indicator lights that probably back up the flat panels, like &#8220;Deorbit burn&#8221;; the most critical info.</p>
<p>Come to think of it, the Tesla has an &#8220;autopilot&#8221; mode that does a lot of the work of driving. If Tesla made a bus, it would look a lot like a Crew Dragon.</p>
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		<title>By: hank</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2020/05/26/keep-your-fingers-crossed-for-todays-launch/#comment-44655</link>
		<dc:creator>hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2020 12:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=82007#comment-44655</guid>
		<description>what makes a good pilot is not good vision, or fine motor skills.  Its the integration of the two: hand-eye coordination, muscle memory, a lifetime of experience and familiarization with the traditional controls on aircraft, not to mention a Darwinian process which has selected for those who excel at those skills.  The stick may be shaped like a a wheel, but pilots yaw with  foot pedals, something which I never fully got used to.  Even in fly-by-wire aircraft, the designers often have to program fake control feedback to help tap these pilot reflexes. If you go into a stall or a spin, you can&#039;t type commands to the control surfaces, no matter how much you practiced it.  Granted, zero-g vacuum maneuvers are fundamentally different, but the mind and body will adjust to that.

This new type of control system may be justified from an purely engineering point of view, it may even be superior, but it no longer takes advantage of the long lifetime of physical experience and training pilots already have in them the day they enter astronaut school.  When a jammed thruster sent a Gemini capsule into uncontrollable 3-axis spins, it was Neil Armstrong&#039;s hands and ear canals that brought it under control, not frantic button and mouse pushing.  Operating any machine relies on physical and manual skills picked up by long real-life experience, then refined on endless hours in a dedicated flight simulator.  This is what is really meant by seat-of-the-pants flying.  When an analog system undergoes failure, the body and brain adjust, adapt, recover. When a screen goes dark, the result is just instant, total disorientation.  It may only be temporary,
but for a time you are helpless.

A purely digital user interface, even when working perfectly, does not take advantage of all that prior experience.  Sure, you can probably control a bicycle with a keypad, too, but you&#039;d have to learn to keep it rolling upright all over again, and you&#039;d never be any good at it. We are monkeys, and we use, and coordinate, our hands and eyes and our perception of the gravity field when we climb trees. Its not a logical process at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what makes a good pilot is not good vision, or fine motor skills.  Its the integration of the two: hand-eye coordination, muscle memory, a lifetime of experience and familiarization with the traditional controls on aircraft, not to mention a Darwinian process which has selected for those who excel at those skills.  The stick may be shaped like a a wheel, but pilots yaw with  foot pedals, something which I never fully got used to.  Even in fly-by-wire aircraft, the designers often have to program fake control feedback to help tap these pilot reflexes. If you go into a stall or a spin, you can&#8217;t type commands to the control surfaces, no matter how much you practiced it.  Granted, zero-g vacuum maneuvers are fundamentally different, but the mind and body will adjust to that.</p>
<p>This new type of control system may be justified from an purely engineering point of view, it may even be superior, but it no longer takes advantage of the long lifetime of physical experience and training pilots already have in them the day they enter astronaut school.  When a jammed thruster sent a Gemini capsule into uncontrollable 3-axis spins, it was Neil Armstrong&#8217;s hands and ear canals that brought it under control, not frantic button and mouse pushing.  Operating any machine relies on physical and manual skills picked up by long real-life experience, then refined on endless hours in a dedicated flight simulator.  This is what is really meant by seat-of-the-pants flying.  When an analog system undergoes failure, the body and brain adjust, adapt, recover. When a screen goes dark, the result is just instant, total disorientation.  It may only be temporary,<br />
but for a time you are helpless.</p>
<p>A purely digital user interface, even when working perfectly, does not take advantage of all that prior experience.  Sure, you can probably control a bicycle with a keypad, too, but you&#8217;d have to learn to keep it rolling upright all over again, and you&#8217;d never be any good at it. We are monkeys, and we use, and coordinate, our hands and eyes and our perception of the gravity field when we climb trees. Its not a logical process at all.</p>
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		<title>By: RL</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2020/05/26/keep-your-fingers-crossed-for-todays-launch/#comment-44654</link>
		<dc:creator>RL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2020 04:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=82007#comment-44654</guid>
		<description>I would be shocked- and horrified -if the loss of a panel or 2 would be catastrophic...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be shocked- and horrified -if the loss of a panel or 2 would be catastrophic&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2020/05/26/keep-your-fingers-crossed-for-todays-launch/#comment-44653</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2020 03:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=82007#comment-44653</guid>
		<description>You got me curious enough to look for pictures or video of the interior of the Crew Dragon, and my overall impression is that it&#039;s a minivan: A single-purpose machine, optimized to get up to seven people to LEO, aka ISS.

You can achieve a lot of efficiencies with a highly specialized machine.

The suits are lightweight, I think, because they re &quot;launch and entry&quot; suits serving a single purpose: To be worn inside a pressurized cabin, providing protection for a short period in event of a catastrophic loss of cabin pressure. The design margins can be a lot thinner, literally, than an EVA or lunar surface suit. This is a shuttle LES:&lt;img src=&quot;https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Launch_entry_suit.jpg/269px-Launch_entry_suit.jpg&quot; /&gt;
Not quite so stylish, but then NASA didn&#039;t use the same design firm as designed the Tesla.

Speaking of commercial design, after poking around images of the cabin, it really seems like designers were given the mission to impress people, and convey &quot;that 21st century look&quot;. Which one of these is a Dragon, and which a Tesla:&lt;img src=&quot;https://i.pinimg.com/originals/87/52/74/875274fe2e1f9da4cdfad5a0a05411d0.jpg&quot; style=&quot;width:600px&quot; /&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;https://live.staticflickr.com/721/21314715631_2b523906e7_b.jpg&quot;  style=&quot;width:600px&quot; /&gt;

Which is the long way round to those flat panel displays.&lt;img src=&quot;https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/2015-2848.jpg&quot; style=&quot;width:600px&quot; /&gt;

I agree with your uneasiness about those panels being a single point of failure. Or three. Crack a panel or fry the electronics, and you take out 1/3 of the capsule&#039;s instrumentation and controls. OTOH, I&#039;ll bet there&#039;s an emergency mode to reconfigure the remaining displays to take over the essential part of a busted panel. Might even be a spare panel in one of the lockers. Touch screens are double-edged blessing that way.

But they sure are pretty, aren&#039;t they?

The other mitigating factor, I think, is that this minivan is highly automated. It&#039;s derived from a cargo capsule that can make it to the station on its own, where the final docking is handled by a manipulator arm. The crewed version does allow the pilot to fly it in, but I looked and I looked, and never spotted the joystick or translation controller. It probably implements those as graphics on the touchscreen, so the pilot flies the Dragon by pushing buttons, like a Federation starship. If they aren&#039;t available, there&#039;s always the robot arm.

Bottom line, I think there&#039;s a lot of smoke and mirrors to the Dragon, a lot of features driven more by marketing and design than by engineering necessity. Everything&#039;s stylish, in an Elon Musk sort of way. The Dragon&#039;s a Tesla for space.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You got me curious enough to look for pictures or video of the interior of the Crew Dragon, and my overall impression is that it&#8217;s a minivan: A single-purpose machine, optimized to get up to seven people to LEO, aka ISS.</p>
<p>You can achieve a lot of efficiencies with a highly specialized machine.</p>
<p>The suits are lightweight, I think, because they re &#8220;launch and entry&#8221; suits serving a single purpose: To be worn inside a pressurized cabin, providing protection for a short period in event of a catastrophic loss of cabin pressure. The design margins can be a lot thinner, literally, than an EVA or lunar surface suit. This is a shuttle LES:<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Launch_entry_suit.jpg/269px-Launch_entry_suit.jpg" /><br />
Not quite so stylish, but then NASA didn&#8217;t use the same design firm as designed the Tesla.</p>
<p>Speaking of commercial design, after poking around images of the cabin, it really seems like designers were given the mission to impress people, and convey &#8220;that 21st century look&#8221;. Which one of these is a Dragon, and which a Tesla:<img src="https://i.pinimg.com/originals/87/52/74/875274fe2e1f9da4cdfad5a0a05411d0.jpg" style="width:600px" /><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/721/21314715631_2b523906e7_b.jpg"  style="width:600px" /></p>
<p>Which is the long way round to those flat panel displays.<img src="https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/2015-2848.jpg" style="width:600px" /></p>
<p>I agree with your uneasiness about those panels being a single point of failure. Or three. Crack a panel or fry the electronics, and you take out 1/3 of the capsule&#8217;s instrumentation and controls. OTOH, I&#8217;ll bet there&#8217;s an emergency mode to reconfigure the remaining displays to take over the essential part of a busted panel. Might even be a spare panel in one of the lockers. Touch screens are double-edged blessing that way.</p>
<p>But they sure are pretty, aren&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>The other mitigating factor, I think, is that this minivan is highly automated. It&#8217;s derived from a cargo capsule that can make it to the station on its own, where the final docking is handled by a manipulator arm. The crewed version does allow the pilot to fly it in, but I looked and I looked, and never spotted the joystick or translation controller. It probably implements those as graphics on the touchscreen, so the pilot flies the Dragon by pushing buttons, like a Federation starship. If they aren&#8217;t available, there&#8217;s always the robot arm.</p>
<p>Bottom line, I think there&#8217;s a lot of smoke and mirrors to the Dragon, a lot of features driven more by marketing and design than by engineering necessity. Everything&#8217;s stylish, in an Elon Musk sort of way. The Dragon&#8217;s a Tesla for space.</p>
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