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	<title>Comments on: The Second Horseman</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/</link>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/#comment-48036</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2022 02:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=89945#comment-48036</guid>
		<description>https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/13/russia-says-talks-with-nato-over-ukraine-are-hitting-a-dead-end

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/14/europe/ukraine-cyber-attack-government-intl/index.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59998988</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/13/russia-says-talks-with-nato-over-ukraine-are-hitting-a-dead-end" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/13/russia-says-talks-with-nato-over-ukraine-are-hitting-a-dead-end</a></p>
<p><a href="https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/14/europe/ukraine-cyber-attack-government-intl/index.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/14/europe/ukraine-cyber-attack-government-intl/index.html</a></p>
<p><a href="https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59998988" rel="nofollow">https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59998988</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sui</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/#comment-47643</link>
		<dc:creator>Sui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2021 09:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=89945#comment-47643</guid>
		<description>We had restrictions at work due to the Cold War and I also lived in military housing so it was quite obvious at times that we weren’t always amongst friends. The Cold War influenced work and the IRA influenced home life. It was always much appreciated to go to my other home place which didn’t have such issues to deal with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We had restrictions at work due to the Cold War and I also lived in military housing so it was quite obvious at times that we weren’t always amongst friends. The Cold War influenced work and the IRA influenced home life. It was always much appreciated to go to my other home place which didn’t have such issues to deal with.</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/#comment-47642</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2021 17:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=89945#comment-47642</guid>
		<description>Having been born in an Air Force base hospital that was surrounded by nuclear missile silos. Ground zero, basically.

Or crapping my diapers during the Cuban crisis. My father, an officer with high clearance, knew how close it was. I don&#039;t remember it, specifically, but I know my parents were terrified, and that has to soak into an infant.

Or living my first 18 years on military bases; the threat ever present. I remember finding the handbook that was issued to my father about the effects of nuclear weapons and how to use the water out of the toilet for survival. I was ten. My siblings joke that we grew up in a gated community where the guards were armed with machine guns. The book &quot;On Thermonuclear War&quot; was assigned reading in high school, as was &quot;Hiroshima.&quot;

Duck and cover training, of course. 

As a teenager, my friends and I would sneak and explore the mock prison camp used for training.

I&#039;d like to say it was a strange way of growing up, but not really. It was normal for us. I wouldn&#039;t say we grew up in fear. Just hyper aware of world events. And the military aircraft 1000 feet overhead were a constant reminder. We could identify all of them, often just by their sound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having been born in an Air Force base hospital that was surrounded by nuclear missile silos. Ground zero, basically.</p>
<p>Or crapping my diapers during the Cuban crisis. My father, an officer with high clearance, knew how close it was. I don&#8217;t remember it, specifically, but I know my parents were terrified, and that has to soak into an infant.</p>
<p>Or living my first 18 years on military bases; the threat ever present. I remember finding the handbook that was issued to my father about the effects of nuclear weapons and how to use the water out of the toilet for survival. I was ten. My siblings joke that we grew up in a gated community where the guards were armed with machine guns. The book &#8220;On Thermonuclear War&#8221; was assigned reading in high school, as was &#8220;Hiroshima.&#8221;</p>
<p>Duck and cover training, of course. </p>
<p>As a teenager, my friends and I would sneak and explore the mock prison camp used for training.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to say it was a strange way of growing up, but not really. It was normal for us. I wouldn&#8217;t say we grew up in fear. Just hyper aware of world events. And the military aircraft 1000 feet overhead were a constant reminder. We could identify all of them, often just by their sound.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/#comment-47641</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2021 05:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=89945#comment-47641</guid>
		<description>Where a single person said, &quot;wait. Stop&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where a single person said, &#8220;wait. Stop&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sui</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/#comment-47639</link>
		<dc:creator>Sui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2021 04:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=89945#comment-47639</guid>
		<description>Thank you, I will</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, I will</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/#comment-47638</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2021 04:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=89945#comment-47638</guid>
		<description>When two great nations are economic rivals, war is usually the result.
Cold wars occur when nuclear weapons make all-out conflict suicidal.  Of course, that only happens when both sides are smart enough to realize that and do everything they can to avoid conflict, as did the USA and USSR in the last century.  Unfortunately, the only sure way to avoid conflict is when both sides are convinced they can&#039;t win.

Tell your 17 year old the best study of how wars can erupt accidentally, even  when both sides are doing everything they can to avoid them, is Barbara Tuchmann&#039;s &quot;The Guns of August&quot;.

It was required reading when I was in college, and one of the great influences on my thought along with Morrises &quot;The Naked Ape&quot; and Roth&#039;s &quot;Portnoy&#039;s Complaint&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When two great nations are economic rivals, war is usually the result.<br />
Cold wars occur when nuclear weapons make all-out conflict suicidal.  Of course, that only happens when both sides are smart enough to realize that and do everything they can to avoid conflict, as did the USA and USSR in the last century.  Unfortunately, the only sure way to avoid conflict is when both sides are convinced they can&#8217;t win.</p>
<p>Tell your 17 year old the best study of how wars can erupt accidentally, even  when both sides are doing everything they can to avoid them, is Barbara Tuchmann&#8217;s &#8220;The Guns of August&#8221;.</p>
<p>It was required reading when I was in college, and one of the great influences on my thought along with Morrises &#8220;The Naked Ape&#8221; and Roth&#8217;s &#8220;Portnoy&#8217;s Complaint&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/#comment-47636</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2021 04:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=89945#comment-47636</guid>
		<description>An Ambitious Topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An Ambitious Topic.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/#comment-47634</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2021 04:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=89945#comment-47634</guid>
		<description>He knows Biden wouldn&#039;t risk war over Ukraine, and he knows Biden won&#039;t fight without NATO, and he knows even if he did, there&#039;s no way NATO could win it without going nuclear.  The threat of invasion by itself would probably get him what he wants, which is to intimidate Europe.  The problem with that reasoning is he doesn&#039;t know for sure Biden and NATO WILL back down--they may decide to fight and threaten to go nuclear.  If that happens, all those troops and ground superiority won&#039;t do him any good, and he will have no option but to go nuclear himself. At that point, all those troops and materiel will be of little value. Russia has big and well equipped armed forces, but it doesn&#039;t have the industrial might to take on all of Europe in a protracted conventional war, especially one that the Europeans and Americans, whether correctly or not, decide they can&#039;t afford to lose.  

Hitler made the same mistake in Poland.  He knew the Brits and French were in no position to stand up to him, but they decided to do so anyway.  From that point on, his enemies, regardless of how weak they might be, had a vote in the outcome.

That&#039;s the problem with starting wars, even if victory is certain, you have no guarantee the losing side won&#039;t care and will do something really stupid.  Like the Fat Man told Sam Spade in the &quot;Maltese Falcon&quot;; &quot;Such situations require the greatest judgement from everyone involved because in the heat of action, men tend to forget where their true interest lies.&quot;  And in today&#039;s high tempo military environment, the situation can quickly get out of hand.

The same problem occurs in WESTPAC.  The Chinese are stronger than the US and its allies in theater, but eventually the US can muster bigger forces. from the rest of the world.  If either side finds itself in a jam, the nuclear option is the only way out, and it is too easily available.

Remember what Pyrrhus said after he defeated the Roman Legions. &quot;Another victory like that and we&#039;re finished.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He knows Biden wouldn&#8217;t risk war over Ukraine, and he knows Biden won&#8217;t fight without NATO, and he knows even if he did, there&#8217;s no way NATO could win it without going nuclear.  The threat of invasion by itself would probably get him what he wants, which is to intimidate Europe.  The problem with that reasoning is he doesn&#8217;t know for sure Biden and NATO WILL back down&#8211;they may decide to fight and threaten to go nuclear.  If that happens, all those troops and ground superiority won&#8217;t do him any good, and he will have no option but to go nuclear himself. At that point, all those troops and materiel will be of little value. Russia has big and well equipped armed forces, but it doesn&#8217;t have the industrial might to take on all of Europe in a protracted conventional war, especially one that the Europeans and Americans, whether correctly or not, decide they can&#8217;t afford to lose.  </p>
<p>Hitler made the same mistake in Poland.  He knew the Brits and French were in no position to stand up to him, but they decided to do so anyway.  From that point on, his enemies, regardless of how weak they might be, had a vote in the outcome.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the problem with starting wars, even if victory is certain, you have no guarantee the losing side won&#8217;t care and will do something really stupid.  Like the Fat Man told Sam Spade in the &#8220;Maltese Falcon&#8221;; &#8220;Such situations require the greatest judgement from everyone involved because in the heat of action, men tend to forget where their true interest lies.&#8221;  And in today&#8217;s high tempo military environment, the situation can quickly get out of hand.</p>
<p>The same problem occurs in WESTPAC.  The Chinese are stronger than the US and its allies in theater, but eventually the US can muster bigger forces. from the rest of the world.  If either side finds itself in a jam, the nuclear option is the only way out, and it is too easily available.</p>
<p>Remember what Pyrrhus said after he defeated the Roman Legions. &#8220;Another victory like that and we&#8217;re finished.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sui</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/#comment-47633</link>
		<dc:creator>Sui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2021 03:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=89945#comment-47633</guid>
		<description>The western pacific has been a topic of conversation in our house of late, my 17 year old is interested in geopolitics and has chosen to research whether we are embroiled in a new Cold War with China. He’s writing up a 5000 word report about it as part of his university entrance exams.I’ll show him this thread, he’ll probably have something to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The western pacific has been a topic of conversation in our house of late, my 17 year old is interested in geopolitics and has chosen to research whether we are embroiled in a new Cold War with China. He’s writing up a 5000 word report about it as part of his university entrance exams.I’ll show him this thread, he’ll probably have something to say.</p>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2021/12/06/the-second-horseman/#comment-47628</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2021 23:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=89945#comment-47628</guid>
		<description>Thankfully cooler heads prevailed in this case:

&lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1983&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thankfully cooler heads prevailed in this case:</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident" rel="nofollow">1983</a></p>
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