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	<title>Comments on: Oumuamua</title>
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	<link>https://habitablezone.com/2022/05/30/oumuamua/</link>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2022/05/30/oumuamua/#comment-50039</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2022 16:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=94796#comment-50039</guid>
		<description>Well, at least there hasn&#039;t been any dark force conjecture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, at least there hasn&#8217;t been any dark force conjecture.</p>
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		<title>By: RL</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2022/05/30/oumuamua/#comment-50030</link>
		<dc:creator>RL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2022 01:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=94796#comment-50030</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_anomaly&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_anomaly&lt;/a&gt;

It led to all sorts of wild speculation- New physics, Modified Newtonian Dynamics.... in the end it had a much more prosaic cause...

Thermal propulsion via the waste heat from the RTG power source...


Given we do not know if it was outgassing, and can only estimate an uppler limit to how much it could have outgassed, and given that we don&#039;t have terribly firm estimates on its dimensions and albedo it seems like any model of how it &#039;should have&#039; accelerated in its orbit would have to include fairly huge error bars given the uncertainties in solar and thermal pressure...

I would love nothing more than to witness evidence of ETI in my lifetime... but jumping to wild conclusions with lack of evidence is only an insult to the intelligence right here on Earth.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_anomaly" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_anomaly</a></p>
<p>It led to all sorts of wild speculation- New physics, Modified Newtonian Dynamics&#8230;. in the end it had a much more prosaic cause&#8230;</p>
<p>Thermal propulsion via the waste heat from the RTG power source&#8230;</p>
<p>Given we do not know if it was outgassing, and can only estimate an uppler limit to how much it could have outgassed, and given that we don&#8217;t have terribly firm estimates on its dimensions and albedo it seems like any model of how it &#8216;should have&#8217; accelerated in its orbit would have to include fairly huge error bars given the uncertainties in solar and thermal pressure&#8230;</p>
<p>I would love nothing more than to witness evidence of ETI in my lifetime&#8230; but jumping to wild conclusions with lack of evidence is only an insult to the intelligence right here on Earth.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2022/05/30/oumuamua/#comment-50026</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2022 19:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=94796#comment-50026</guid>
		<description>the evidence is often incomplete, or even contradictory.  It is not a cop-out to say &quot;We just don&#039;t know for sure, but it was probably something quite ordinary.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the evidence is often incomplete, or even contradictory.  It is not a cop-out to say &#8220;We just don&#8217;t know for sure, but it was probably something quite ordinary.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2022/05/30/oumuamua/#comment-50025</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2022 19:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=94796#comment-50025</guid>
		<description>We just detected no evidence of outgassing.  Maybe it was an inertialess drive, maybe it was a fusion rocket,
or a matter-antimatter engine (although we saw no evidence of those either) but maybe it was just a gas leaking from the body that our sensors weren&#039;t tuned to pick up, or sensitive enough to detect.

Now, if it suddenly had accelerated to 20% of the speed of light in a few hours, and exited the solar system in a column of ionized flame, then maybe we would have reason to suspect an artifact, but it didn&#039;t.  It just altered velocity slightly, just like an outgassing comet might. Who knows what caused it, and we already know a natural mechanism that does exactly that.
There&#039;s a lot of things science can&#039;t explain, but that doesn&#039;t mean that everything we can&#039;t explain is a miracle, or an alien action.

Scientists are not lawyers.  Scientists believe you are guilty until you are proven innocent.  All we can say for sure right now is that there is no convincing evidence to prove, or even suggest, the object was artificial.  Now maybe it WAS the mothership, and  2I/Borisov WAS a follow-up mission sent to confirm Oumuamua&#039;s finding. But we don&#039;t know that.  In fact, we don&#039;t even know enough to suspect that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We just detected no evidence of outgassing.  Maybe it was an inertialess drive, maybe it was a fusion rocket,<br />
or a matter-antimatter engine (although we saw no evidence of those either) but maybe it was just a gas leaking from the body that our sensors weren&#8217;t tuned to pick up, or sensitive enough to detect.</p>
<p>Now, if it suddenly had accelerated to 20% of the speed of light in a few hours, and exited the solar system in a column of ionized flame, then maybe we would have reason to suspect an artifact, but it didn&#8217;t.  It just altered velocity slightly, just like an outgassing comet might. Who knows what caused it, and we already know a natural mechanism that does exactly that.<br />
There&#8217;s a lot of things science can&#8217;t explain, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that everything we can&#8217;t explain is a miracle, or an alien action.</p>
<p>Scientists are not lawyers.  Scientists believe you are guilty until you are proven innocent.  All we can say for sure right now is that there is no convincing evidence to prove, or even suggest, the object was artificial.  Now maybe it WAS the mothership, and  2I/Borisov WAS a follow-up mission sent to confirm Oumuamua&#8217;s finding. But we don&#8217;t know that.  In fact, we don&#8217;t even know enough to suspect that.</p>
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		<title>By: RobVG</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2022/05/30/oumuamua/#comment-50024</link>
		<dc:creator>RobVG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2022 19:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=94796#comment-50024</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t heard if they&#039;ve come up with an explanation yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t heard if they&#8217;ve come up with an explanation yet.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2022/05/30/oumuamua/#comment-50023</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2022 14:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=94796#comment-50023</guid>
		<description>The object flew through our solar system a a velocity consistent with other stars in this part of the galaxy.  This suggests it is just drifting along with the rest of the local spiral arm stars.

There is a concept in stellar kinematics called the Local Standard of Rest (LSR). It refers to the average speed and direction of stars in the solar neighborhood, and it exhibits a speed and direction due to orbital motion around the galactic center, about several hundred kilometers per second relative to the galactic center. Most of the the stars in the galactic disc within  a few hundred light years share this general velocity, implying they are all part of this general rotation.  

There are some  exceptions to this rule, the so-called &quot;high velocity&quot; stars, a population of stars which orbit the galaxy in random orbits, not as part of the disc population.  These stars are part of the galactic halo and we see a few of them flying through the disk at odd angles and high speeds.  This population was probably formed during the early history of the galaxy, while the disc stars (like our sun) formed later after the disc stabilized.  These stars all seem to be traveling at several hundred km/s relative to the LSR, so from our perspective they seem to be &quot;high velocity&quot;

Most of our neighbors, flowing along with the general drift of the LSR, all appear to be moving at relative velocities in the range of several tens of km/s.  This is a minor motion superimposed on their LSR velocities.

The two interlopers we discuss here have moved through our solar system at velocities consistent with LSR objects, plus the little extra speed they might have picked up by falling down the sun&#039;s gravity well.  We know they are outsiders because they are moving faster than the sun&#039;s escape velocity, but still at LSR-typical speeds.

It seems unlikely an extraterrestrial civilization would bother launching probes at the same rough velocity as the drift itself. Then again, who knows?  Maybe the aliens are in no hurry to get anywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_kinematics</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The object flew through our solar system a a velocity consistent with other stars in this part of the galaxy.  This suggests it is just drifting along with the rest of the local spiral arm stars.</p>
<p>There is a concept in stellar kinematics called the Local Standard of Rest (LSR). It refers to the average speed and direction of stars in the solar neighborhood, and it exhibits a speed and direction due to orbital motion around the galactic center, about several hundred kilometers per second relative to the galactic center. Most of the the stars in the galactic disc within  a few hundred light years share this general velocity, implying they are all part of this general rotation.  </p>
<p>There are some  exceptions to this rule, the so-called &#8220;high velocity&#8221; stars, a population of stars which orbit the galaxy in random orbits, not as part of the disc population.  These stars are part of the galactic halo and we see a few of them flying through the disk at odd angles and high speeds.  This population was probably formed during the early history of the galaxy, while the disc stars (like our sun) formed later after the disc stabilized.  These stars all seem to be traveling at several hundred km/s relative to the LSR, so from our perspective they seem to be &#8220;high velocity&#8221;</p>
<p>Most of our neighbors, flowing along with the general drift of the LSR, all appear to be moving at relative velocities in the range of several tens of km/s.  This is a minor motion superimposed on their LSR velocities.</p>
<p>The two interlopers we discuss here have moved through our solar system at velocities consistent with LSR objects, plus the little extra speed they might have picked up by falling down the sun&#8217;s gravity well.  We know they are outsiders because they are moving faster than the sun&#8217;s escape velocity, but still at LSR-typical speeds.</p>
<p>It seems unlikely an extraterrestrial civilization would bother launching probes at the same rough velocity as the drift itself. Then again, who knows?  Maybe the aliens are in no hurry to get anywhere.</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_kinematics" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_kinematics</a></p>
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		<title>By: RL</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2022/05/30/oumuamua/#comment-50021</link>
		<dc:creator>RL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2022 03:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=94796#comment-50021</guid>
		<description>The guy is an embarrassment.

He makes wild claims unsupported by evidence simply to get his name in the press...

He has been on radio Sputnik more than a few times... that is how cheap a media whore he is...



&lt;blockquote&gt;So what is &#039;Oumuamua? The debate continues; speculation is ripe in such a data-poor environment. Harvard astronomer Avi Loeb has used the lack of data to propose that &#039;Oumuamua is an alien spaceship. But considering intelligent aliens may be capable of doing whatever they want, this could be an explanation for pretty much any observation. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The guy is an embarrassment.</p>
<p>He makes wild claims unsupported by evidence simply to get his name in the press&#8230;</p>
<p>He has been on radio Sputnik more than a few times&#8230; that is how cheap a media whore he is&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>So what is &#8216;Oumuamua? The debate continues; speculation is ripe in such a data-poor environment. Harvard astronomer Avi Loeb has used the lack of data to propose that &#8216;Oumuamua is an alien spaceship. But considering intelligent aliens may be capable of doing whatever they want, this could be an explanation for pretty much any observation. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2022/05/30/oumuamua/#comment-50007</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2022 13:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=94796#comment-50007</guid>
		<description>I had great hopes for this guy, but after some reflection, I&#039;m starting to think its just an ordinary piece of space debris.  The only reason we haven&#039;t seen one before is that we only just recently developed the technology, and since we deployed that tech, we&#039;ve already found two interstellar interlopers. Look up 2I/Borisov.  Both of these visitors have definitely been identified as extrasolar by their orbits, but neither is behaving like an alien spacecraft.  They move like ordinary space junk would be expected to.

It seems reasonable that the galaxy is littered with planetoids, meteors and comets that have been ejected from their parent star systems, far away and long ago.  And now that we can find them, they will start turning up more and more often.  The only thing about this one that is really remarkable is its long, skinny shape--no natural process that we know of could produce an object with this aspect ratio.  But we don&#039;t really know that, do we?  The only evidence we have for its shape is a light curve, and that could be the result of some unusual set of surface markings or blotches that reflect sunlight that way as it tumbles through space.  As for its unexpected acceleration, we&#039;ve seen that behavior in comets, caused by outgassing.  2I/Borisov was a comet, not just a rock, but associated volatiles, too.

Still, the idea that we are visited periodically by extraterrestrial objects is fascinating.  Perhaps someday we may travel to one and take a good look at it.  And maybe the next one won&#039;t be just a lump of ET slag or a drifting iceberg.  Maybe it will be a whole planet.  We already have evidence that there may be multitudes of rogue planets, cold solitary worlds, prowling around the yawning darkness between the stars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had great hopes for this guy, but after some reflection, I&#8217;m starting to think its just an ordinary piece of space debris.  The only reason we haven&#8217;t seen one before is that we only just recently developed the technology, and since we deployed that tech, we&#8217;ve already found two interstellar interlopers. Look up 2I/Borisov.  Both of these visitors have definitely been identified as extrasolar by their orbits, but neither is behaving like an alien spacecraft.  They move like ordinary space junk would be expected to.</p>
<p>It seems reasonable that the galaxy is littered with planetoids, meteors and comets that have been ejected from their parent star systems, far away and long ago.  And now that we can find them, they will start turning up more and more often.  The only thing about this one that is really remarkable is its long, skinny shape&#8211;no natural process that we know of could produce an object with this aspect ratio.  But we don&#8217;t really know that, do we?  The only evidence we have for its shape is a light curve, and that could be the result of some unusual set of surface markings or blotches that reflect sunlight that way as it tumbles through space.  As for its unexpected acceleration, we&#8217;ve seen that behavior in comets, caused by outgassing.  2I/Borisov was a comet, not just a rock, but associated volatiles, too.</p>
<p>Still, the idea that we are visited periodically by extraterrestrial objects is fascinating.  Perhaps someday we may travel to one and take a good look at it.  And maybe the next one won&#8217;t be just a lump of ET slag or a drifting iceberg.  Maybe it will be a whole planet.  We already have evidence that there may be multitudes of rogue planets, cold solitary worlds, prowling around the yawning darkness between the stars.</p>
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		<title>By: Pebble</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2022/05/30/oumuamua/#comment-50000</link>
		<dc:creator>Pebble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2022 09:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=94796#comment-50000</guid>
		<description>https://www.universetoday.com/154028/if-launched-by-2028-a-spacecraft-could-catch-up-with-oumuamua-in-26-years/

Maybe some of you will be here to see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://www.universetoday.com/154028/if-launched-by-2028-a-spacecraft-could-catch-up-with-oumuamua-in-26-years/" rel="nofollow">https://www.universetoday.com/154028/if-launched-by-2028-a-spacecraft-could-catch-up-with-oumuamua-in-26-years/</a></p>
<p>Maybe some of you will be here to see it.</p>
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