Comments on: Deja effin’ vu all over again

By: ER

ER — Thu, 22 Sep 2022 02:53:15 +0000

There may be some truth to that. We had lots of them left over in warehouses, so we used them all up bombing mostly empty jungle.

I think Putin had much the same idea, using obsolete tanks and munitions (and expired rations) in Ukraine.
I guess it didn’t work for him either.

By: ER

ER — Thu, 22 Sep 2022 02:37:20 +0000

The cock-up and clusterfuck that was the Great Grenada Campaign was a hastily-organized and sloppily executed action put together primarily to distract Americans from the fact that 250 US Marines were killed by one terrorist bomber in Lebanon just a short time earlier. The remaining US force in that country was hastily withdrawn without the terrorist cell being punished, their peace mission carried out, or our men avenged. It didn’t stop Washington from strutting and bragging how resolute and determined the Administration was in reacting boldly to the great Cuban threat to the medical students.

Reagan needed a victory. He almost got another rout. And I’ve despised tough-guy Conservative war-mongers ever since.

By: podrock

podrock — Thu, 22 Sep 2022 01:48:37 +0000

That the US had a bunch of bombs reaching their shelf life. A bunch of officers without a combat badge. New tax dollars that needed spending. Ike was right on this one.

I recently came across a cassette tape my father made while he was serving in Vietnam. I have not listened to it, yet. Need to set up a digital recording, it’s so old it may only have a single play left on it before it gets sucked into the capstan.

By: BuckGalaxy

BuckGalaxy — Thu, 22 Sep 2022 01:00:47 +0000

…Came after Grenada. Yes we took that tiny island in 4 days in 1983, but it was a mess. Navy ships providing naval gunfire and Marine, Air Force, and Navy fighter-bomber support aircraft mistakenly killed American ground forces due to differences in charts and location coordinates, data, and methods of calling for fire support. Communications between services were also not compatible and hindered the coordination of operations.

The Department of Defense recognized a need for improved communications and coordination among the branches of the American military. Congress investigated many of the problems and passed the Goldwater-Nichols Act of 1986 This act reworked the command structure of the military, making the most sweeping changes to the Department of Defense since it was established in 1947. It increased the power of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and advanced the concept of unified joint forces organized under one command.

By: ER

ER — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 23:59:47 +0000

…there was one good thing about Viet Nam.

It showed our armed forces were corrupt and decadent. A paper tiger. When we couldn’t win there, we reformed our military from the bottom up. And when Desert Storm came along it was lean, mean and squared away.

I think the Russians are learning that lesson right now, the hard way.

By: ER

ER — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 23:42:22 +0000

You are absolutely right.

But Ukraine was also considering jointing the EU. It was enjoying running its own affairs and not having to follow the Russian lead. It had a messy but functioning democracy, and it finally knew what it was like not living under the Russian yoke. Its people LIKED being Western.

Russia knew this, and was afraid it might spread to other countries in the old Soviet orbit. Russia can’t rebuild its old empire if those who are free of it suddenly prosper and thrive. They had to put a stop to it, no matter how many half-baked lies they had to come up with to justify it.

What they hadn’t counted on was that even decadent, pampered Western democracies can still fight.

Viet Nam WAS different, in many ways. It was a different time, different place, different peoples involved. But one factor WAS the same: we were afraid one of our outpost bastions was being turned into an enemy base. Even if it wasn’t any more of an immediate threat than a NATO Ukraine was to Putin, it might become one in the future. So we felt we had to act.

So we acted. We failed. And nothing terrible happened. There was no cascade of falling dominoes, Communists did not take over all of Asia, and Viet Nam is more afraid of China today than they ever were of us. They want us as a military ally, for Chrissake.

But to be fair, at the time that wasn’t very clear, was it? I certainly didn’t get it. Eisenhower, JFK and LBJ didn’t get it.

But I think Nixon and Kissinger got it.

By: podrock

podrock — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 23:13:30 +0000

Had little to do with this. Pretext only. Russia considers Ukraine as Russia. But very much like the Vietnam doctrine, they will destroy the country in order to save it.

Vietnam was a sunk cost fallacy writ large. Plus, we had all those toys that needed trying out and then replaced.

By: ER

ER — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 22:18:10 +0000

But it still rhymes.

We went to war in Viet Nam because we were afraid the country might join the Communist Bloc. Putin went to war In Ukraine because he was afraid it would join NATO.

Same shoot ‘em up. Same rodeo.

By: BuckGalaxy

BuckGalaxy — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 20:36:37 +0000

America was not seeking to make Vietnam part of our country. We weren’t seeking to conquer and absorb an entire nation; we were on an ideological mission to defeat communism. Vietnam was strategically a bad move and tactically an absolutely idiotic campaign. It had those things in common with Russia’s Ukraine fiasco.