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	<title>Comments on: Space Tourism</title>
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		<title>By: DanS</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2023/06/22/space-tourism/#comment-52128</link>
		<dc:creator>DanS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2023 23:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=100018#comment-52128</guid>
		<description>P. T. Barnum would be so proud. (n/t)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P. T. Barnum would be so proud. (n/t)</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2023/06/22/space-tourism/#comment-52024</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jun 2023 15:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=100018#comment-52024</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve often felt guilty about supporting that sport, knowing that when things go wrong the society must mobilize at great expense to pick up the pieces. Its one thing when merchant seamen need rescue because they are carrying the world&#039;s commerce, a worthwhile and necessary activity.  But its another when a bunch of rich dudes get into trouble while indulging in their favorite playtime. Still, nobody on those yachts bought a ticket.  Likewise, the miners are there to provide us with the riches of the earth, they are well aware of the risks and of the conscientiousness (or lack of it) of their employers. They know the danger but have chosen to be there because they are supporting their families.

Bluewater yachtsmen are usually highly skilled, and well aware of the dangers.  And they are there in spite of that,   But these sub passengers bought tickets from a business that profited from the transaction--or, at least, expected to profit... And it was a business that was willing to gamble with the lives of its customers by using an untested technology and make excuses for it it with the usual free-market double-talk: &quot;government regulation and certification stifles innovation and creativity&quot;.  Its the arrogance of the entrepreneurial mentality; &quot;Leave us alone, we know what we&#039;re doing, we are the source of all that&#039;s good in the world, we are better than those who are afraid to take the risks&quot;. 

Granted, regulation and certification does not guarantee safety, any more than lack of it guarantees hazard. Even the highly regulated airline industry sometimes kills its customers. But outside oversight at least provides an extra level of security. But the passengers on that sub paid for their tickets. They died to feather another man&#039;s pockets. The pilot of that craft (also co-owner of the company) was willing to put his life on the line, and for that I respect him.  But his passengers were victims to his greed.  They were sacrificed bankrolling his dream.

I suppose you&#039;re wondering why I always seem to be especially harsh on those who profit from an ill-fated activity.  Well, it seems to me the reason for that should be self-evident.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve often felt guilty about supporting that sport, knowing that when things go wrong the society must mobilize at great expense to pick up the pieces. Its one thing when merchant seamen need rescue because they are carrying the world&#8217;s commerce, a worthwhile and necessary activity.  But its another when a bunch of rich dudes get into trouble while indulging in their favorite playtime. Still, nobody on those yachts bought a ticket.  Likewise, the miners are there to provide us with the riches of the earth, they are well aware of the risks and of the conscientiousness (or lack of it) of their employers. They know the danger but have chosen to be there because they are supporting their families.</p>
<p>Bluewater yachtsmen are usually highly skilled, and well aware of the dangers.  And they are there in spite of that,   But these sub passengers bought tickets from a business that profited from the transaction&#8211;or, at least, expected to profit&#8230; And it was a business that was willing to gamble with the lives of its customers by using an untested technology and make excuses for it it with the usual free-market double-talk: &#8220;government regulation and certification stifles innovation and creativity&#8221;.  Its the arrogance of the entrepreneurial mentality; &#8220;Leave us alone, we know what we&#8217;re doing, we are the source of all that&#8217;s good in the world, we are better than those who are afraid to take the risks&#8221;. </p>
<p>Granted, regulation and certification does not guarantee safety, any more than lack of it guarantees hazard. Even the highly regulated airline industry sometimes kills its customers. But outside oversight at least provides an extra level of security. But the passengers on that sub paid for their tickets. They died to feather another man&#8217;s pockets. The pilot of that craft (also co-owner of the company) was willing to put his life on the line, and for that I respect him.  But his passengers were victims to his greed.  They were sacrificed bankrolling his dream.</p>
<p>I suppose you&#8217;re wondering why I always seem to be especially harsh on those who profit from an ill-fated activity.  Well, it seems to me the reason for that should be self-evident.</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2023/06/22/space-tourism/#comment-52021</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jun 2023 13:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=100018#comment-52021</guid>
		<description>Yup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup.</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2023/06/22/space-tourism/#comment-52020</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jun 2023 13:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=100018#comment-52020</guid>
		<description>If you buy a fishing or hunting license, you&#039;ll not be charged for a wilderness rescue. Otherwise, you might have to pay the bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you buy a fishing or hunting license, you&#8217;ll not be charged for a wilderness rescue. Otherwise, you might have to pay the bill.</p>
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		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2023/06/22/space-tourism/#comment-52018</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jun 2023 06:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=100018#comment-52018</guid>
		<description>The world is dangerous.  Sailboats like the one you considered cause extensive search and rescues when they are missing.  Same with airplanes.  Same with the hikers who get stuck on Mt Hood every winter near where I live.  

Think about the miners trapped deep underground in Chili about ten years ago and the hundreds of millions spent to successfully save them.  Rescuing people in trouble, whether they are thrill seekers, workers, billionaires, whatever, is a cost society seems willing to pay.  It gives people the knowledge that if they were ever in a situation like that they wouldn&#039;t be abandoned.  In a way, it gives us all hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world is dangerous.  Sailboats like the one you considered cause extensive search and rescues when they are missing.  Same with airplanes.  Same with the hikers who get stuck on Mt Hood every winter near where I live.  </p>
<p>Think about the miners trapped deep underground in Chili about ten years ago and the hundreds of millions spent to successfully save them.  Rescuing people in trouble, whether they are thrill seekers, workers, billionaires, whatever, is a cost society seems willing to pay.  It gives people the knowledge that if they were ever in a situation like that they wouldn&#8217;t be abandoned.  In a way, it gives us all hope.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2023/06/22/space-tourism/#comment-52012</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jun 2023 15:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=100018#comment-52012</guid>
		<description>Them&#039;s dangerous waters you&#039;re sailing into.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Them&#8217;s dangerous waters you&#8217;re sailing into.</p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2023/06/22/space-tourism/#comment-52011</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2023 19:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=100018#comment-52011</guid>
		<description>Ms P. doesn&#039;t even like it when I climb a ladder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms P. doesn&#8217;t even like it when I climb a ladder.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2023/06/22/space-tourism/#comment-52010</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2023 19:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=100018#comment-52010</guid>
		<description>Debris found, all hands presumed lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debris found, all hands presumed lost.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2023/06/22/space-tourism/#comment-52009</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2023 18:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=100018#comment-52009</guid>
		<description>You&#039;d think you&#039;d have less fear of death the older you were, not the other way round.

This was brought painfully home to me a few years ago when a friend bought a Com-Pac 16. took some courses, and learned how to sail.  Knowing about my experience, He asked me if I would be interested in accompanying him on a few more ambitious sails after he had mastered the basics,  We decided it might be interesting to sail direct from his launch marina in Coconut Grove to the northernmost of the Florida Keys, Elliot Key.
  The Com-Pac is cramped, but the cabin will sleep two in a pinch, one comfortably. Its about 12 nautical miles across Biscayne Bay, mostly open sea and which (depending on the wind) might take anywhere from 6 to 24 hours.  So there was a good chance we&#039;d be doing a major piece of it at night.

I used to do cruises like this all the time with my 12&#039; San Francisco Pelican on the Gulf Coast, in similar waters (St Joseph&#039;s Sound). about 40 years ago. But when I started planning the trip, studying the chart and making the calculations, I realized this was a long and dangerous trip.  The round trip might easily take a week. If a stiff wind kicked up against us we might get exposed to the full fury of the Atlantic all night long, with nothing but mangrove swamps, mud flats and limestone reefs to our lee.  Biscayne Bay is shallow, dotted with shifting sand bars and coral heads. I imagine it can kick up into a vicious chop.

I was glad to hear when Robert decided to sell the boat.  His partner decided, after one afternoon sail, that he didn&#039;t want to go sailing after all.

This one would have been a challenging but enjoyable sail for me and the Pelican 40 years ago, but I could clearly see now all the things that could go wrong.




Com-Pac 16
https://images.harbormoor.com/originals/5d630337-bc7a-415a-b353-1c7e7a9c2695
&lt;img src=&quot;https://images.harbormoor.com/originals/5d630337-bc7a-415a-b353-1c7e7a9c2695&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;

San Francisco Pelican
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFEY2u_AyARN8v_NTOryT5RCilIoHLLiW7aw&amp;usqp=CAU
&lt;img src=&quot;https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFEY2u_AyARN8v_NTOryT5RCilIoHLLiW7aw&amp;usqp=CAU&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;d think you&#8217;d have less fear of death the older you were, not the other way round.</p>
<p>This was brought painfully home to me a few years ago when a friend bought a Com-Pac 16. took some courses, and learned how to sail.  Knowing about my experience, He asked me if I would be interested in accompanying him on a few more ambitious sails after he had mastered the basics,  We decided it might be interesting to sail direct from his launch marina in Coconut Grove to the northernmost of the Florida Keys, Elliot Key.<br />
  The Com-Pac is cramped, but the cabin will sleep two in a pinch, one comfortably. Its about 12 nautical miles across Biscayne Bay, mostly open sea and which (depending on the wind) might take anywhere from 6 to 24 hours.  So there was a good chance we&#8217;d be doing a major piece of it at night.</p>
<p>I used to do cruises like this all the time with my 12&#8242; San Francisco Pelican on the Gulf Coast, in similar waters (St Joseph&#8217;s Sound). about 40 years ago. But when I started planning the trip, studying the chart and making the calculations, I realized this was a long and dangerous trip.  The round trip might easily take a week. If a stiff wind kicked up against us we might get exposed to the full fury of the Atlantic all night long, with nothing but mangrove swamps, mud flats and limestone reefs to our lee.  Biscayne Bay is shallow, dotted with shifting sand bars and coral heads. I imagine it can kick up into a vicious chop.</p>
<p>I was glad to hear when Robert decided to sell the boat.  His partner decided, after one afternoon sail, that he didn&#8217;t want to go sailing after all.</p>
<p>This one would have been a challenging but enjoyable sail for me and the Pelican 40 years ago, but I could clearly see now all the things that could go wrong.</p>
<p>Com-Pac 16<br />
<a href="https://images.harbormoor.com/originals/5d630337-bc7a-415a-b353-1c7e7a9c2695" rel="nofollow">https://images.harbormoor.com/originals/5d630337-bc7a-415a-b353-1c7e7a9c2695</a><br />
<img src="https://images.harbormoor.com/originals/5d630337-bc7a-415a-b353-1c7e7a9c2695" alt="" /></p>
<p>San Francisco Pelican<br />
<a href="https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFEY2u_AyARN8v_NTOryT5RCilIoHLLiW7aw&#038;usqp=CAU" rel="nofollow">https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFEY2u_AyARN8v_NTOryT5RCilIoHLLiW7aw&#038;usqp=CAU</a><br />
<img src="https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFEY2u_AyARN8v_NTOryT5RCilIoHLLiW7aw&amp;usqp=CAU" alt="" /></p>
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		<title>By: podrock</title>
		<link>https://habitablezone.com/2023/06/22/space-tourism/#comment-52007</link>
		<dc:creator>podrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2023 16:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=100018#comment-52007</guid>
		<description>If you have read the book or seen the movie, you&#039;ll see the mounting problems climbing Everest. Big crowds and inexperienced climbers who have no reason to try it.

Recently, a free climber, one who climbs rocks without ropes, fell to his death in a canyon near here.

I have become more risk adverse as I get older. Perhaps the most dangerous thing I used to do was going into really old mines. But it wasn&#039;t for fun, it was work or school.

No way I would climb into that can and go two miles down. Even if it managed to surface, the crew could not open the door from the inside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have read the book or seen the movie, you&#8217;ll see the mounting problems climbing Everest. Big crowds and inexperienced climbers who have no reason to try it.</p>
<p>Recently, a free climber, one who climbs rocks without ropes, fell to his death in a canyon near here.</p>
<p>I have become more risk adverse as I get older. Perhaps the most dangerous thing I used to do was going into really old mines. But it wasn&#8217;t for fun, it was work or school.</p>
<p>No way I would climb into that can and go two miles down. Even if it managed to surface, the crew could not open the door from the inside.</p>
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