Had there been average growth of $150B in revenues (average from 2004-2007) then those deficits would be that much less. Factor in that Obama stopped pretending the wars were off budget and didn’t count in the deficit, and we’re essentially back to 2007 deficit levels.

In other words, Obama has held the line on spending he inherited.

I said our country’s problem is the spending, not the tax revenues, and it doesn’t matter whose fault the spending was to make that true.

I used averages so that the cumulative effects would come through. You don’t like averages? Okay, the U.S. all-time record high for revenues was in 2007. $2.41 trillion in 2005 dollars.

The lowest revenue year, 2009, was about $500 billion less. That “dramatic” enough for you?

Okay, now assume we were taking in that record $2.41 trillion every year from 2009 through 2012. Not “dramatically reduced” revenues.

What do you get?

2009 deficit: $763 billion
2010 deficit: $671 billion
2011 deficit: $716 billion
2012 deficit (est.): $802 billion

Obama’s budget proposal assumes revenues by 2017 would be over $3 trillion. And the predicted deficit that year is still $470 billion.

You’re welcome to play with the numbers yourself. I gave you the link.

Your “averages” are obvious statistical manipulations so cut the fucking bullshit. I notice you left out the corresponding massive federal spending increases under Bush which created the spending obligations Obama inherited.

And FOR THE LAST TIME, 2009 WAS BUSH’S FUCKING BUDGET.

1998: 2.04
1999: 2.14
2000: 2.31
2001: 2.21
2002: 2.03
2003: 1.90
2004: 1.95
2005: 2.15
2006: 2.32
2007: 2.41
2008: 2.29
2009: 1.90
2010: 1.93
2011: 2.00
2012: 2.09 (est)

2000 was a surplus year. Revenues of $2.31 trillion, and outlays of $2.04 trillion.

The average post-recession revenues (2009 through 2012) are about $1.98 trillion. A “dramatic” $179 billion reduction over the average of the previous eleven years.

Average annual outlays over those four post-recession years?

$3.15 trillion.

If we still were bringing in the 2000 revenues of $2.31 trillion, the deficit would now be averaging $840 billion a year, twice Bush’s largest deficits.

(All constant 2005 dollars from the Obama budget tables)

At this point a third grader would see what the real problem was.

(I welcome math checks)

I clipped my post after I posted it, but I know what you were answering.

You point out that we are $400 billion more in debt every year. All Bush’s fault, of course.

And a few comments up I pointed out that spending right now is $500 billion plus more than it was in 2008. There was a chart showing this sharp level change. It’s the second time I posted it.
You don’t see any connection?

None of this is critical, essential, temporary spending. It’s the government simply ratcheting up an emergency level to permanent baseline status. Because they can.

Look at that chart again. You like Clinton, right? See the level changes under him (and Gingrich)? How much of the prosperity of those years was due to government spending and growth? Pretty much none. It’s not the driver of prosperity, and never has been. I would gladly take 90s tax rates back in trade for 90s spending levels. A trillion dollars less per year than we’re spending now. In 1972 a trillion dollars was the whole damn budget.

Spend some time with the CBO analysis of Obama’s very own budget. Permanent deficits and a budget that climbs another $2 trillion a year over the next ten years. Hell, even the CBO baseline, which assumes all the massive tax increases, has a permanent deficit.

Don’t you get it? We may have passed the point where it’s possible to loot enough money out of the system to create the size and power of government liberals think we have to have. Europe has. All the activity we’re seeing over there now is just a fish flopping on the beach.

Presidents have inherited crappy situations before. I’m trying to remember any president prior to Obama who spent his entire first term wailing about the load his predecessor left him and how nobody could have done any better.

We were talking about authenticity. I have never read once here where you have acknowledged the fact that such a huge portion of the increase in the size of the deficit is from reduced revenues from the severe economic downturn., and not anywhere near all from additional spending.

I have not once heard you acknowledge the fact that president Obama has slowed the growth of the federal government far far far below president Bush.

Show some integrity Tom. Let’s both put the honest facts on the table and cut the bullshit. Look what Bush inherited. Look what Obama inherited.

No sane person can doubt Obama spends every day of his life trying to pull America out of the mess he was handed. He’s made some real progress in spite of the deplorable obstruction of the GOP in Congress.