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Birthright Citizenship RobVG June 29, 2025 3:34 pm (CurrentEvents)

To be blunt, NASA is now dead RL June 27, 2025 11:56 am (Space/Science)

Just for the record... ER June 22, 2025 8:59 am (CurrentEvents)

NSIDC offline? ER June 12, 2025 12:19 pm (Space/Science)

Musk trashes his own AI after it chose a liberal worldview. RobVG June 23, 2025 9:56 am (CurrentEvents)

Psyche keeps its date with an asteroid BuckGalaxy June 22, 2025 5:21 pm (Space/Science)

The Three Unknowns After the U.S. Strike on Iran BuckGalaxy June 22, 2025 12:58 am (CurrentEvents)

There are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy. BuckGalaxy June 22, 2025 12:29 am (Flame)

"Remember, what the dormouse said, ER June 5, 2025 4:14 pm (Space/Science)

Not ready for prime time BuckGalaxy June 19, 2025 12:18 pm (Space/Science)

hypocrisy ER June 15, 2025 2:30 pm (Flame)

So, it is official RL June 6, 2025 5:39 pm (Space/Science)

And I thought it was 57 by ER April 12, 2012 5:33 am

They truly believe that. It takes a loose mind to stretch that far, a mind capable of believing anything ... by bowser 2012-04-12 13:41:25
- Why don't you pass the time by playing a little solitaire? by ER 2012-04-12 14:21:34
Actually, it's more like 76. by TB 2012-04-12 07:47:37
- No, Tom, you've got it wrong. by ER 2012-04-12 08:30:51
  - I've watched those two videos and I can't see any substantive difference between them, other than he mumbles something about ... by ER 2012-04-12 09:03:55
    - BTW, I once played softball at a Socialist Workers Party of America 4th of July picnic (my girlfriend at the ... by ER 2012-04-12 09:18:04
      - I don't know. Is your name proudly displayed on the DSA membership lists? by TB 2012-04-12 09:42:32
        
        Tom, I can't help what you want and I have no control over what you believe. But that doesn't ... by ER 2012-04-12 11:06:05
        
        Bigfoot isn't real. Pelosi, Ellison, and Obama are. That makes a difference. by TB 2012-04-12 11:26:17
        
        The only real difference is YOU don't like Pelosi, Ellison and Obama. And why should I base my likes and ... by ER 2012-04-12 12:11:14

The Flame Board! by TB April 12, 2012 8:04 am

Hah! I posted this on Facebook! by Jody 2012-04-12 11:06:41
A typical TB post. Impressive, unbelievable, funnier 'n' hell, a great addition to the HZ. That was truly ... by bowser 2012-04-12 10:44:05

On engineering, government, and complex fixes by TB April 11, 2012 12:10 pm

It would be nice to fix everything at once, but humans don't have that kind of foresight. One thing ... by BuckGalaxy 2012-04-11 22:15:50
- Start here: by TB 2012-04-12 08:20:15
You and ER agreeing on something? *Checks outside for burning rain* by VelociraptorBlade 2012-04-11 19:39:33
- Actually, he's trying to set me up by using my own words against me. Just follow this thread a little ... by ER 2012-04-11 20:07:20
  - Subtlety can sometimes be a liability here. by TB 2012-04-11 20:13:04
    - You'd think by now you'd realize you're not being very successful at communicating your ideas. That could be the result of ... by ER 2012-04-11 20:19:35
      - Hey now... Calm down before you guys say something you regret later. After all, it doesn't matter who's wrong or ... by VelociraptorBlade 2012-04-11 21:27:50
        
        Like this? by podrock 2012-04-12 05:42:48
        
        The easiest way I found is to go to the YouTube page for a video. by TB 2012-04-12 07:53:19
        
        One caveat: by TB 2012-04-12 08:23:58
      - There are other possible options. by TB 2012-04-11 20:45:20
        
        Sure. All your critics could be dead wrong and just stubbornly refuse to listen to your logic. by ER 2012-04-11 21:21:22
        
        Heh. Bingo. by TB 2012-04-11 21:42:51
        
        Squeeeeeek... by TB 2012-04-11 21:43:44
Simple answer: Treat law like software. by Robert 2012-04-11 14:26:31
Everything you say is undoubtedly true. But the problem of the engineer is very different from that of the ... by ER 2012-04-11 13:41:23
- Predictable? by TB 2012-04-11 14:55:16
  - One example of the problem here. by TB 2012-04-11 14:59:17
    - It all matters where you draw the line. We draw it in different places. But that line must ... by ER 2012-04-11 15:47:12
      - When you finally understand there is self-interest on both sides of this issue, the discussion can proceed. by TB 2012-04-11 15:58:24
        
        I have no doubt there is self-interest involved on both sides. I just think one side has more motivation, ... by ER 2012-04-11 17:52:41
        
        "I just think one side has more motivation, resources, organization, experience and history with bending public opinion to their purposes. ... by TB 2012-04-11 18:03:08
        
        Be careful, TB. You've recognized that similarities in partisan rhetoric suggest that political speech may be more a function ... by ER 2012-04-11 19:36:30
        
        What I hoped you'd notice is that, historically, governments match that description far more than businesses do. by TB 2012-04-11 20:06:24
        
        Yeah, right. Socialized Medicine is the first step to the Gulag. by ER 2012-04-11 20:15:43
        
        We weren't discussing socialized medicine. by TB 2012-04-11 20:43:47
        
        Sure Tom. And any form of social welfare, will automatically steer us in this direction. If your ludicrous comparison was ... by ER 2012-04-11 21:34:13
        
        We weren't discussing socialized medicine. by TB 2012-04-11 21:40:28

Democratic leaders in 2006 by TB April 11, 2012 9:16 pm

Big surprise there. As we know oil prices are set by global markets so all of this is nonsense. ... by BuckGalaxy 2012-04-11 22:03:34
Okay, you've got them there. Both sides love shooting each other down about oil and gas prices. by VelociraptorBlade 2012-04-11 21:19:30

Anybody else stocking up on popcorn... by TB April 11, 2012 8:58 pm

So what can a poor boy do? by ER April 9, 2012 3:54 am

If this place is any indication... by RobVG 2012-04-09 18:13:13
- If I had it to do all over again, I'd study music. People say it is like mathematics, although ... by ER 2012-04-09 19:30:34
It can fill yer belly n/t by RobVG 2012-04-09 17:13:32
I'm trying to think of changes in society that have succeeded. The anti-smoking campaign is one, and the anti-Union ... by bowser 2012-04-09 10:10:43
- Individuals can make a difference, but they take heavy casualties, too. I respect and admire them, but I do not envy ... by ER 2012-04-09 11:15:18
  - I believe we all want our lives to have meaning. Those who know this also know we have to ... by bowser 2012-04-10 09:04:00
    - You're a wise man, Bowser. by ER 2012-04-10 10:26:49
      - You're very kind, and way too modest. And trapped. Your COPS activity is important in two ways. One is ... by bowser 2012-04-10 19:17:51

More about corporate libertarianism. by ER April 9, 2012 4:23 am

All of these bong fantasies, including Carson's "Mutualism," fail in execution on one simple point: Who decides? by TB 2012-04-09 09:13:04
- That's very simple, a problem which has been solved many times. Once the standards, values, or goals have been agreed upon ... by bowser 2012-04-09 09:31:29
  - The problem is NOT that free markets are a bad thing. On the contrary, they actually work. The problem is ... by ER 2012-04-09 09:40:28
    - I was once testifying before the Oregon House Ways and Means committee about increasing the budget for the Wage and ... by bowser 2012-04-09 09:52:39
  - "The community." Hall. Thumb. Now. by TB 2012-04-09 09:37:16
    - It's a problem which has been solved many times. by bowser 2012-04-09 09:41:18
      - Name them. Historical, please, not academic papers. by TB 2012-04-09 09:43:36
        
        I did. Two different methods. If you don't like the way I did it, try the Constitutions of ... by bowser 2012-04-09 09:56:23
        
        In the context of the ideology we're discussing, please. by TB 2012-04-09 10:00:49
- I must have scored a hit. I see secondary explosions. by ER 2012-04-09 09:29:52
  - We have the recent examples of Enron and WorldCom which debunk the idea a free market is workable in this ... by bowser 2012-04-09 09:39:52
    - You realize you cough up the same two or three examples every time to "prove" that the free market can't work? by TB 2012-04-09 10:08:39
      - Do you realize you've never refuted that? Do you realize that human nature needs to be a factor? ... by bowser 2012-04-09 10:32:16
  - Friend, your shots didn't even hit the same ocean I'm in. by TB 2012-04-09 09:35:44
    - Yeah, who decides? The guy who gets paid a bonus for selling as little as he can for as ... by ER 2012-04-09 09:45:28
      - In the context of the references we were discussing please. by TB 2012-04-09 10:19:48
        
        You want references? by ER 2012-04-09 10:52:57

Corporate Libertarianism and the betrayal of Adam Smith by ER April 8, 2012 8:25 am

"planned and managed by the world’s largest corporations to maximize financial returns to top managers" by RobVG 2012-04-08 12:18:17
- Tell us what a "straw man" argument might look like. by bowser 2012-04-08 14:16:46
- Not even kings of old had lackeys piling bags of gold at their feet. CEOs do it the same way the ... by ER 2012-04-08 13:06:20
I constantly link to people who encapsulate my opinions better than I sometimes can. by TB 2012-04-08 10:24:34
- Another chapter from the same book, I see. by ER 2012-04-08 10:37:33
  - You agree with the bulleted points? Tell me you're just pulling my chain. by TB 2012-04-08 14:04:59
    - Yep. Every single one, although in a few areas I really don't have the technical expertise to have thought ... by ER 2012-04-08 14:49:04
      - Okay, you are pulling my chain. by TB 2012-04-08 15:05:23
        
        I presume that banking gobbledygook has something to do with how our banks are organized and regulated, right? I ... by ER 2012-04-08 15:25:14
        
        Yep. A whole lot of gobbledygook. by TB 2012-04-08 15:54:22
        
        Silicon-based macroprocessors by Robert 2012-04-08 17:32:48
        
        By the way, what the hell is a "corporate libertarian?" by TB 2012-04-08 20:29:12
        
        "By the way, what the hell is a corporate libertarian?" by ER 2012-04-09 02:41:44
        
        Get back to me when you've compiled a version of your software on one of those devices. by TB 2012-04-08 20:20:52
        
        You're really out of your depth. by Robert 2012-04-09 10:17:22
        
        I guess that makes three. by TB 2012-04-09 10:30:15
        
        How about an SiO2 slide rule? Right out of the corporate libertarian box. by ER 2012-04-08 18:28:10
    - Love those bulleted points. Much better than working for the demise of the country. by bowser 2012-04-08 14:20:33

Just sayin' by Jody April 5, 2012 6:40 pm

This is America, then. Equality. Responsibility. Opportunity. Let's give everyone an equal chance and let them ... by bowser 2012-04-06 14:34:01
- OMG...BOWSER! ...and you say I don't have a pulse on reality. It is indeed a strange world. Why don't you adopt a ... by Jody 2012-04-06 15:12:44
So let's put it in simple terms then. Except for number four, the other points are essentially true (in ... by BuckGalaxy 2012-04-05 22:29:00
- "Moral vacuum?" What do you think, Jody? by TB 2012-04-06 09:17:22
  - A "moral vacuum" is having children without health insurance. Go ahead - justify that. Morally. by bowser 2012-04-08 02:51:08
    - No... a moral vacuum is having children KNOWING you have no health insurance....and doing it anyway..thinking somebody else will pick ... by Jody 2012-04-08 09:18:35
      - So watching a child born to irresponsible parents do without health care is just fine. That is not a moral vacuum. ... by bowser 2012-04-08 10:20:24
        
        Man....I had to look up *amoral* vs. *immoral*. Anyhoo....I don't consider being a Conservative to be immoral. You do. You are ... by Jody 2012-04-08 10:37:39
        
        You believe that watching an American child not get health care is moral. Typical Conservative, Silly Putty substituting for brains. ... by bowser 2012-04-08 12:21:00
        
        BOINGA BOINGA...that is my silly putty brain bouncing around the room...sorta like your logic. by Jody 2012-04-08 15:54:13
        
        State and Federal governments, right now, spend something like $450 billion a year on medical care for those who can't afford it. by TB 2012-04-08 13:37:19
        
        Every other industrialized nation as national health care. America, which touts it'self as the richest nation in the world ... by bowser 2012-04-08 14:03:30
        
        What's the point of telling you anything at all? by TB 2012-04-08 14:24:33
        
        Funny how easy it is by RobVG 2012-04-08 12:55:29
        
        What about the kid, Rob? by bowser 2012-04-08 14:04:50
        
        "The Kid" by RobVG 2012-04-09 08:38:32
        
        Agreed Rob....and I think the average Josephine is completely overwhelmed by just about everything right now. Nothing...absolutely nothing is working ... by Jody 2012-04-09 08:47:02
        
        "Nothing…absolutely nothing is working how we would like it to." by TB 2012-04-09 09:30:19
        
        Well, I have lemme see...1,2,3,nope 7 extended family members that are doing just fine existing on government hand out programs. ... by Jody 2012-04-08 14:47:22
        
        Rob...seriously...I think you have hit the nail on the head. Bowser perceives himself a hero. A Robin Hood of sorts. Wow...this has ... by Jody 2012-04-08 13:11:23
        
        Like I said in a different post, it's a lot easier to wear a colored ribbon and yell for someone else to pay more taxes than to actually do something. by TB 2012-04-08 13:59:21
  - Your arguments as always are extremist. As if paying higher taxes is stealing every last penny from a billionaire. ... by BuckGalaxy 2012-04-06 12:12:45
    - You're missing the point, Buck. The rich don't want to pay any taxes at all. In fact, they want protectionism, ... by ER 2012-04-07 11:23:29
    - When we had the tax rates of the 90s, spending was a trillion dollars less a year, in 2005 dollars. by TB 2012-04-06 12:58:10
  - Well, there's a "moral vacuum" when the resources of a country are used to the benefit of the wealthy to ... by bowser 2012-04-06 11:50:49
  - I understand what Buck means by moral vacuum because I have a Conservative brother in law who is a millionaire ... by Jody 2012-04-06 10:55:08
    - I see that as an investment decision vs a moral decision. No one knows better than him whether his money would ... by FrankC 2012-04-06 12:02:09
      - Yeah, but see, under the liberal "moral code" it's not his decision. by TB 2012-04-06 12:59:22
        
        What chaps my hide Tom...and this is a digression, but the liberals are every bit as guilty about passing *moral" ... by Jody 2012-04-06 13:34:54
        
        Exactly. He has a choice...and it is only himself he must answer to. It is all about personal accountability ... by Jody 2012-04-06 13:11:26
Well, that certainly reads well. Sounds great. Let's ask how hard hedge fund managers, who contribute absolutely nothing repeat nothing ... by bowser 2012-04-05 19:28:02
- None of the things Jody wrote made the slightest dent, did it? by TB 2012-04-05 21:27:55
  - I said they sound good. There's a simplistic ring to them, simplistic assumptions which appeal to people whose value ... by bowser 2012-04-05 23:21:41
    - Valuing community. by RobVG 2012-04-07 10:30:32
      - This is very simple. People who are willing to contribute to the well-being of those around them are interested ... by bowser 2012-04-08 02:49:56
      - Thank you Rob...I couldn't have said it better. by Jody 2012-04-07 12:21:40

An interesting discovery with interesting implications... by Vitruvius April 8, 2012 8:03 pm

It's the Law of Unforeseen Consequences. by ER 2012-04-09 02:33:35

"Romney turns to Obama after GOP primary sweep." by bowser April 3, 2012 11:50 pm

The Democrats in 2008 nominated someone who was the personification of an ideology that has wrecked everything it's touched. by TB 2012-04-04 09:04:03
- Bush inherited a trillion dollar surplus. Obama inherited a collapsing economy trillions in debt, plus two unwinnable wars. And a ... by bowser 2012-04-04 12:11:02
  - No, he's hoping WE forget. by ER 2012-04-08 17:19:34

Visual aid on the "Buffett Rule" by TB April 6, 2012 5:13 pm

I'm going to add one more post to this thread, because I find it entirely hilarious (Let me explain before ... by VelociraptorBlade 2012-04-07 17:39:16
Shouldn't there be a similar graph for Selective Service? by ER 2012-04-07 10:24:54
- "People need to pay for this country to the extent which they have benefited from it. Those who feel ... by TB 2012-04-07 11:46:03
  - I noticed you didn't even begin to challenge my analogy with Selective Service. Instead, you changed the subject. Tom, the rich ... by ER 2012-04-07 12:14:16
    - That's because the analogy stunk. by TB 2012-04-07 17:11:27
      - So the wealthy pay "most of the taxes", but a modest increase in their tax rate would not help in ... by ER 2012-04-07 18:16:53
Baby steps, man. One bit at a time. Plus, I seriously doubt that there's a way you could make all the ... by VelociraptorBlade 2012-04-06 18:14:14
- So, what's the next step? by TB 2012-04-06 18:34:11
  - Well, you know, you've won. The US is a plutocracy, a country ruled by the wealthy. Your fondest ... by bowser 2012-04-06 21:07:31
    - This is not a game someone wins Bowser. We are all in this economic quagmire together. Just not all on ... by Jody 2012-04-07 08:45:23
    - No, I haven't "won." by TB 2012-04-07 08:11:10
      - Extrapolate the policies you endorse, and tell me it's not what Marx predicted. By the way, an incredible amount of Obama's ... by bowser 2012-04-07 11:27:56
        
        Okay, let's do bailouts. by TB 2012-04-07 12:02:18
        
        What Tom's trying to tell you, Bowser, is that since there aren't enough rich people in the country, and since ... by ER 2012-04-07 12:01:04
        
        TB is ignoring the main point, again. Marx understood capitalism, greed, and foretold that the TBs would insure the ... by bowser 2012-04-07 23:21:21
        
        But never forget... by ER 2012-04-08 13:21:55
        
        No, Tom is not trying to tell him that the rich should pay no taxes. Try again. by TB 2012-04-07 12:04:26
        
        "Tax the rich, feed the poor, til there are no rich no more." -Alvin Lee. I'm sick and tired of the poor ... by ER 2012-04-07 12:21:19
        
        "Tax the rich, feed the poor, til there are no rich no more." by TB 2012-04-07 17:17:39
        
        There may be fewer rich than there used to be, but have you noticed that they are much, much richer? This ... by ER 2012-04-07 17:44:19
        
        Who's making out in this economy? by TB 2012-04-07 21:15:27
        
        Karl Marx. Friederich Engels. The ultra-wealthy. Mega-corporations. Ironic, isn't it? by bowser 2012-04-07 23:50:12

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